When I posted his amputation photos last month, it raised quite a lot of conversation, so I’ve followed that up with an interview — click through to read that now and come back here to comment!
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Comments
472 responses to “Amputation Interview Posted”
For those who have felt it necessary to call me out for not venerating all modifications as responsible exercises of personal freedoms, that’s your right. I’m definitely a licensed physician and I’ve always viewed my role here as being one of pointing out areas of concerns. This particular individual is the flash point for numerous concerns from his desired mods to his level of secrecy from his loved ones. This are areas worthy of discussion and concern. I really think that, but apparently that’s not a valid position.
I haven’t accused anyone who claims to be an amputee of lying. I haven’t accused anyone who endorses this behavior and modification of being anything less than someone who endorses these behaviors. The lack of decorum that anything other than abject support for those featured on modblog generates is disconcerting to me.
The issues of having AKAs are complicated. We apparently cannot discuss those things here. People who end up with AKAs in my practice career have never once been glad to lose their leg. From a functionality standpoint orthopedic surgeons work very hard to preserve the knee joint because it makes huge differences in the functionality of prosthetics. But I clearly am not entitled to know this.
I cannot and will not venerate dangerous and self destructive behavior. Period. Modification for it’s own sake has limits in my worldview and I admit that freely here. Can you others accept your own limitations?
For those who have felt it necessary to call me out for not venerating all modifications as responsible exercises of personal freedoms, that’s your right. I’m definitely a licensed physician and I’ve always viewed my role here as being one of pointing out areas of concerns. This particular individual is the flash point for numerous concerns from his desired mods to his level of secrecy from his loved ones. This are areas worthy of discussion and concern. I really think that, but apparently that’s not a valid position.
I haven’t accused anyone who claims to be an amputee of lying. I haven’t accused anyone who endorses this behavior and modification of being anything less than someone who endorses these behaviors. The lack of decorum that anything other than abject support for those featured on modblog generates is disconcerting to me.
The issues of having AKAs are complicated. We apparently cannot discuss those things here. People who end up with AKAs in my practice career have never once been glad to lose their leg. From a functionality standpoint orthopedic surgeons work very hard to preserve the knee joint because it makes huge differences in the functionality of prosthetics. But I clearly am not entitled to know this.
I cannot and will not venerate dangerous and self destructive behavior. Period. Modification for it’s own sake has limits in my worldview and I admit that freely here. Can you others accept your own limitations?
I dunno, Shannon. You seem to take a default position that any “modification” of any body for any reason is acceptable, good, and defensible. You’ve defended the decorative tattooing of dogs, the voluntary removal of body parts including major limbs, body modification artists performing surgery, and various other practices that could at the very least be considered borderline. People have raised what I consider very valid points regarding all these, yet you haven’t taken any position, and I haven’t seen many of these points raised in your interviews.
Several voluntary amputees themselves have indicated that their desires are disordered; so is anorexia nervosa, yet you don’t feature it on BME. In fact, I haven’t seen any images or discussion of people who’ve drastically modified their bodies through such means as extreme dieting or extreme body building. Why not? Is it because you recognise that such behaviours have a basis in pathology?
I dunno, Shannon. You seem to take a default position that any “modification” of any body for any reason is acceptable, good, and defensible. You’ve defended the decorative tattooing of dogs, the voluntary removal of body parts including major limbs, body modification artists performing surgery, and various other practices that could at the very least be considered borderline. People have raised what I consider very valid points regarding all these, yet you haven’t taken any position, and I haven’t seen many of these points raised in your interviews.
Several voluntary amputees themselves have indicated that their desires are disordered; so is anorexia nervosa, yet you don’t feature it on BME. In fact, I haven’t seen any images or discussion of people who’ve drastically modified their bodies through such means as extreme dieting or extreme body building. Why not? Is it because you recognise that such behaviours have a basis in pathology?
Exploding Boy… Um, I haven’t defended tattooing dogs or anything/anyone else that can’t give consent, so please do NOT suggest that I have.
I have posted about body building and both fasting and gainer culture as well. I don’t think that body building is a sickness, nor do I think weight control has to be either — both absolutely CAN be valid forms of body modification. As long as it’s consensual and the person understands what they’re getting themselves into, I support it.
I do not feel that it is my place to put limits on other people’s freedom of expression, and while I enjoy interviewing people about their interests, I do not feel particularly motivated to structure an interview over old and tired insults that reflect a shallow understanding of what they’re about, even if that is the first thing that crosses the mind of the mainstream reader.
Exploding Boy… Um, I haven’t defended tattooing dogs or anything/anyone else that can’t give consent, so please do NOT suggest that I have.
I have posted about body building and both fasting and gainer culture as well. I don’t think that body building is a sickness, nor do I think weight control has to be either — both absolutely CAN be valid forms of body modification. As long as it’s consensual and the person understands what they’re getting themselves into, I support it.
I do not feel that it is my place to put limits on other people’s freedom of expression, and while I enjoy interviewing people about their interests, I do not feel particularly motivated to structure an interview over old and tired insults that reflect a shallow understanding of what they’re about, even if that is the first thing that crosses the mind of the mainstream reader.
I guess I am just feeling empathy for the wife. It actually seems less serious to me than hiding a secret sex life and possibly giving her a disease or virus though. This all has me thinking of that scene in the Stephen King movie Cats Eye where the women is holding a champagne glass and the tip of her little finger is gone…I would never do that(I think) but if I did I would cut it off clean and bloody. I didn’t like the”in progress” photos of all that infection. But maybe thats part of it for him? Controlled infection…I get into that with my healing scarifications.
I guess I am just feeling empathy for the wife. It actually seems less serious to me than hiding a secret sex life and possibly giving her a disease or virus though. This all has me thinking of that scene in the Stephen King movie Cats Eye where the women is holding a champagne glass and the tip of her little finger is gone…I would never do that(I think) but if I did I would cut it off clean and bloody. I didn’t like the”in progress” photos of all that infection. But maybe thats part of it for him? Controlled infection…I get into that with my healing scarifications.
I do agree that he’s probably “in too deep” to want to tell his wife now, which is really sad. It’s going to be harder for him now that he’s come all this way, but I guess he can’t change the mistakes he’s already made (i.e., not telling his wife before he started all this). I hope it works out all right for him and for his family.
moddoctor – Sorry for being a jerk. I had a strong reaction to some of your assertions, particularly that losing one leg will make this guy a “burden on society” and that he can’t drive a car with only one leg. Maybe these were your own strong reactions to the initial post. I found it upsetting that a doctor would be so negative about an amputee, even if the amputation was voluntary.
Personally, I’m a little curious about phantom limbs, but I would never actually do it. I love my body parts where they are. 🙂
I do agree that he’s probably “in too deep” to want to tell his wife now, which is really sad. It’s going to be harder for him now that he’s come all this way, but I guess he can’t change the mistakes he’s already made (i.e., not telling his wife before he started all this). I hope it works out all right for him and for his family.
moddoctor – Sorry for being a jerk. I had a strong reaction to some of your assertions, particularly that losing one leg will make this guy a “burden on society” and that he can’t drive a car with only one leg. Maybe these were your own strong reactions to the initial post. I found it upsetting that a doctor would be so negative about an amputee, even if the amputation was voluntary.
Personally, I’m a little curious about phantom limbs, but I would never actually do it. I love my body parts where they are. 🙂
I think ‘akibare’(#97) raised an interesting point, about the stigma on people who choose to join a group generally seen as disadvantaged.
A few have touched on the issue of voluntary amputees being somehow hoarders of pity rightfully deserved to involuntary amputees, and the response of an amputee here, ‘Shane’(#44), being “What makes you think we want your pity?”(paraphrased but seems accurate)
In life, there will always be people who tell you that the way you live is wrong. The decisions you make, your favorite brand of peanut butter, or the way you look, there’s always someone who will disagree. At the end of the day, it’s you who has to live with yourself, so do the best you can to make that possible.
I’m glad things like this get posted and discussed, because it’s informative and it makes you think(well, at least some of the comments do). I think that someone somewhere at any given time, will be wanting to amputate their limbs or fingers or toes or whatever. Perhaps they’d be doing it even without the information and suchlike; indeed I’d bet that people HAVE. And at least this is a venue where they will know a. they are not alone, b. perhaps there is a NAME and PLACE for what they feel and who they ARE, and c. there is at least some information and maybe even options in existence.
I think ‘akibare’(#97) raised an interesting point, about the stigma on people who choose to join a group generally seen as disadvantaged.
A few have touched on the issue of voluntary amputees being somehow hoarders of pity rightfully deserved to involuntary amputees, and the response of an amputee here, ‘Shane’(#44), being “What makes you think we want your pity?”(paraphrased but seems accurate)
In life, there will always be people who tell you that the way you live is wrong. The decisions you make, your favorite brand of peanut butter, or the way you look, there’s always someone who will disagree. At the end of the day, it’s you who has to live with yourself, so do the best you can to make that possible.
I’m glad things like this get posted and discussed, because it’s informative and it makes you think(well, at least some of the comments do). I think that someone somewhere at any given time, will be wanting to amputate their limbs or fingers or toes or whatever. Perhaps they’d be doing it even without the information and suchlike; indeed I’d bet that people HAVE. And at least this is a venue where they will know a. they are not alone, b. perhaps there is a NAME and PLACE for what they feel and who they ARE, and c. there is at least some information and maybe even options in existence.
“Um, I haven’t defended tattooing dogs or anything/anyone else that can’t give consent, so please do NOT suggest that I have.”
Yes, you have. Here: https://www.bme.com/news/2007/05/24/lost-and-tattooed-dog/ you say (among other things) “A [decorative] tattoo on the dog of a loving (misguided or not) owner is really a complete non-issue.”
But you’re still not really giving a response. I didn’t say that body building was pathological, but that in some cases extreme body building can be, as can extreme weight loss. When a skeletal appearance results from an eating disorder, it’s an illness, not a body modification. Just to be clear, are you claiming this type of dieting is a form of body modification that should be supported?
I think it’s disingenous to simply dismiss people’s thoughtful points as “old and tired insults” or “shallow understanding.” Some people participating here are attempting to engage in thoughtful discussion about issues (such as, where’s the line between “body modification” and “self mutilation”) for which there are few easy answers and many reasonable concerns.
“Um, I haven’t defended tattooing dogs or anything/anyone else that can’t give consent, so please do NOT suggest that I have.”
Yes, you have. Here: https://www.bme.com/news/2007/05/24/lost-and-tattooed-dog/ you say (among other things) “A [decorative] tattoo on the dog of a loving (misguided or not) owner is really a complete non-issue.”
But you’re still not really giving a response. I didn’t say that body building was pathological, but that in some cases extreme body building can be, as can extreme weight loss. When a skeletal appearance results from an eating disorder, it’s an illness, not a body modification. Just to be clear, are you claiming this type of dieting is a form of body modification that should be supported?
I think it’s disingenous to simply dismiss people’s thoughtful points as “old and tired insults” or “shallow understanding.” Some people participating here are attempting to engage in thoughtful discussion about issues (such as, where’s the line between “body modification” and “self mutilation”) for which there are few easy answers and many reasonable concerns.
it’s fake…that’s my opinion!
it’s fake…that’s my opinion!
“crystallinectar – So you’re saying it’s harder on a woman in a marriage to be married to an amputee than a gay man? 😛 I’m not saying either should be hidden, but I think it’s a fair comparison.”
Typically, the wives tend to be oblivious (or damn near) to the fact their husbands are gay. The men go out of their way to make their marriage seem as normal as possible. If my husband were diabetic and was always getting infections and losing body parts, I would be worried out of my mind. Whereas, if my husband were secretly gay, it would would be pretty hard for me to be worried since there wouldn’t be anything obvious for me to notice.
Every time this guy has to go to the hospital for an infection or amputation, he’s putting his life on the line. This would have to be incredibly hard on his wife. For all she knows, she’s watching her husband die little by little, piece by piece. Due to the fact that she believes this is brought on by bad luck/diabetes, I’m guessing she feels pretty helpless.
“crystallinectar – So you’re saying it’s harder on a woman in a marriage to be married to an amputee than a gay man? 😛 I’m not saying either should be hidden, but I think it’s a fair comparison.”
Typically, the wives tend to be oblivious (or damn near) to the fact their husbands are gay. The men go out of their way to make their marriage seem as normal as possible. If my husband were diabetic and was always getting infections and losing body parts, I would be worried out of my mind. Whereas, if my husband were secretly gay, it would would be pretty hard for me to be worried since there wouldn’t be anything obvious for me to notice.
Every time this guy has to go to the hospital for an infection or amputation, he’s putting his life on the line. This would have to be incredibly hard on his wife. For all she knows, she’s watching her husband die little by little, piece by piece. Due to the fact that she believes this is brought on by bad luck/diabetes, I’m guessing she feels pretty helpless.
Shannon-yes, I agree. Although, honestly, I see this as more along the lines of a gay guy married to a woman who is cheating on her with guys. Not simply a gay man married to a woman who is trying to come to terms with his sexuality and/or trying to figure out how to tell her. I don’t know if that makes sense or not…
In the first case, the guy is actively pursuing something that is directly harmful to his wife. In the second, he’s contemplating and attempting to come to terms with something before telling his wife. I see a difference there.
But like I said, I do understand why he’s kept it hidden, and I’m glad he’s trying to figure out how to tell his wife. I just think it would have been nice if he had discussed these desires before he acted on them, though I know that’s not always a realistic option. Either way, I hope it goes well for him, and doesn’t cause any long-term problems with his marriage. Hopefully she’ll be understanding of his choices and things will work out ok.
Shannon-yes, I agree. Although, honestly, I see this as more along the lines of a gay guy married to a woman who is cheating on her with guys. Not simply a gay man married to a woman who is trying to come to terms with his sexuality and/or trying to figure out how to tell her. I don’t know if that makes sense or not…
In the first case, the guy is actively pursuing something that is directly harmful to his wife. In the second, he’s contemplating and attempting to come to terms with something before telling his wife. I see a difference there.
But like I said, I do understand why he’s kept it hidden, and I’m glad he’s trying to figure out how to tell his wife. I just think it would have been nice if he had discussed these desires before he acted on them, though I know that’s not always a realistic option. Either way, I hope it goes well for him, and doesn’t cause any long-term problems with his marriage. Hopefully she’ll be understanding of his choices and things will work out ok.
Although I understand sympathy for his in-the-dark wife, I don’t think anyone is really giving consideration to just how hard it will be for him to reveal this secret. Just look at the reactions of this community. Here we have a group of people who are accepting of hanging from hooks, implanting objects, cutting, etc. and even some of you are completely appalled by these acts. The fear of having someone you love react in the same way, well it’s absolutely terrifying. To be an outsider in a community such as this (which I would definitely consider myself as) is a struggle. When the outsiders judge you as an outsider, it’s hard to be open and honest with all of your feelings…So give the guy some credit…This isn’t just hiding a belly button piercing from your parents. It’s seeking the complete acceptance of a loved one regarding a subject that is shunned by most of society.
Also, I understand this feeling that he is putting a strain on the health care system by pursuing this. What about when piercings/other modifications become infected? When these people flee to a hospital for medical care, I never seen anyone complaining, saying that they should have never got that piercing knowing that they had the chance of using up already stretched thin medical care. I know amputation is a much more extreme case, but any form of body modification has the risk of medical intervention.
Although I understand sympathy for his in-the-dark wife, I don’t think anyone is really giving consideration to just how hard it will be for him to reveal this secret. Just look at the reactions of this community. Here we have a group of people who are accepting of hanging from hooks, implanting objects, cutting, etc. and even some of you are completely appalled by these acts. The fear of having someone you love react in the same way, well it’s absolutely terrifying. To be an outsider in a community such as this (which I would definitely consider myself as) is a struggle. When the outsiders judge you as an outsider, it’s hard to be open and honest with all of your feelings…So give the guy some credit…This isn’t just hiding a belly button piercing from your parents. It’s seeking the complete acceptance of a loved one regarding a subject that is shunned by most of society.
Also, I understand this feeling that he is putting a strain on the health care system by pursuing this. What about when piercings/other modifications become infected? When these people flee to a hospital for medical care, I never seen anyone complaining, saying that they should have never got that piercing knowing that they had the chance of using up already stretched thin medical care. I know amputation is a much more extreme case, but any form of body modification has the risk of medical intervention.
I think the points made about how so many insults come from within the body modification commnunity are valid. Maybe I’ve just lived in a very rude and conservative town, but I lost track long ago of how many times people made comments that basically amounted to saying that I was self-mutilating myself — and I have FAR less extreme mods than Leen, Shannon and probably half of the people who’ve posted here.
As with many things, society has been conditioned as to what’s acceptable and what isn’t. Amputation has definitely fallen into the category of always being a tragic circumstance and therefore why would anyone want to do something like that voluntarily. It doesn’t necessarily have to be tragic or negative…so why must we echo what someone has probably said to any of you with facial piercings or even tattoos: “how can you do that to yourself?” to someone who just has a different view of themselves?
When I first started coming to BME, I was shocked by voluntary amputation. I was also a bit shocked by tongue splitting, subincisions and just about anything else that went beyond piercings, tattoos and less extreme scarifications. But keeping an opened mind and talking to people who had heavier modifications made me realize that they’re no different than me. They just have different aesthetic tastes that are no more wrong than mine.
There is definitely a mental health aspect, but in my opinion it only has to do with not rushing into things. This is something that requires commitment and a person who seems sane and logical, as Leen does, understands what he is getting himself into long term. Going into it on a whim would be where I’d have issue with it.
I also have to agree with Shannon and some others about Leen’s wife not knowing — it must be hard to worry about her reaction. I would definitely have liked to see more of an in-depth exploration into this aspect within the interview, but it probably is a sensitive subject for him. It just amazes me the things people think they must keep from their spouse — internet porn was a good example — in order to be loved. I do feel lucky that I am in love with a woman who doesn’t necessarily share my deep interest in body modification but accepts me and knows my feelings on the topic (my acceptance of the more extreme forms of modification included). I’ve told her before that if she and I ever separated I think I’d have a hard time finding someone as accepting of me even within the body modification community — and that’s just for my opinions and acceptance of the extreme.
I think the points made about how so many insults come from within the body modification commnunity are valid. Maybe I’ve just lived in a very rude and conservative town, but I lost track long ago of how many times people made comments that basically amounted to saying that I was self-mutilating myself — and I have FAR less extreme mods than Leen, Shannon and probably half of the people who’ve posted here.
As with many things, society has been conditioned as to what’s acceptable and what isn’t. Amputation has definitely fallen into the category of always being a tragic circumstance and therefore why would anyone want to do something like that voluntarily. It doesn’t necessarily have to be tragic or negative…so why must we echo what someone has probably said to any of you with facial piercings or even tattoos: “how can you do that to yourself?” to someone who just has a different view of themselves?
When I first started coming to BME, I was shocked by voluntary amputation. I was also a bit shocked by tongue splitting, subincisions and just about anything else that went beyond piercings, tattoos and less extreme scarifications. But keeping an opened mind and talking to people who had heavier modifications made me realize that they’re no different than me. They just have different aesthetic tastes that are no more wrong than mine.
There is definitely a mental health aspect, but in my opinion it only has to do with not rushing into things. This is something that requires commitment and a person who seems sane and logical, as Leen does, understands what he is getting himself into long term. Going into it on a whim would be where I’d have issue with it.
I also have to agree with Shannon and some others about Leen’s wife not knowing — it must be hard to worry about her reaction. I would definitely have liked to see more of an in-depth exploration into this aspect within the interview, but it probably is a sensitive subject for him. It just amazes me the things people think they must keep from their spouse — internet porn was a good example — in order to be loved. I do feel lucky that I am in love with a woman who doesn’t necessarily share my deep interest in body modification but accepts me and knows my feelings on the topic (my acceptance of the more extreme forms of modification included). I’ve told her before that if she and I ever separated I think I’d have a hard time finding someone as accepting of me even within the body modification community — and that’s just for my opinions and acceptance of the extreme.
and to Exploding Boy: I don’t think Shannon was saying with that comment that he supported the tattooing of the dog at all. It seemed to me that he was merely trying to make a point. If you don’t speak out against docking tails and ears, against eating meat, against identification chips and tattoos, etc., then you have no right to speak out against a decorative tattoo on a dog. Honestly, as against it as I am, it was done under anesthesia, which I can assure is far less painful for the dog than it is for the chickens on chicken farms that people gobble up everyday.
As for mental illness vs. body modification, We have no evidence at all that this guy is doing these amputations due to some psychological problem. From reading the interview, it sounds to me like he was curious and liked the way it looks. He says there was no internal struggle. That to me, doesn’t sound like a mental problem. It’s no more crazy than me doing a suspension because I was curious about how it would feel, or me getting a piercing because I like the way it looks.
I do agree that there is a difference between wanting to do something and needing to do it. In some cases, voluntary amputation is driven by a psychological problem. But this doesn’t seem to be one of them to me.
And even when it is psychologically driven, there is most often an end goal, and when that’s reached, they’re done. There’s been quite a bit of research to support this. Unlike anoretics, where there is never a real end goal and they keep going indefinitely, most voluntary amputees reach a set goal and stop. I’m not saying it’s healthy or that I would recommend for those with a psychological need for amputations to pursue it in all cases, but as long as they have an end goal and actually stop there and it solves the problem (and it usually does), then who am I to tell them not to do it?
and to Exploding Boy: I don’t think Shannon was saying with that comment that he supported the tattooing of the dog at all. It seemed to me that he was merely trying to make a point. If you don’t speak out against docking tails and ears, against eating meat, against identification chips and tattoos, etc., then you have no right to speak out against a decorative tattoo on a dog. Honestly, as against it as I am, it was done under anesthesia, which I can assure is far less painful for the dog than it is for the chickens on chicken farms that people gobble up everyday.
As for mental illness vs. body modification, We have no evidence at all that this guy is doing these amputations due to some psychological problem. From reading the interview, it sounds to me like he was curious and liked the way it looks. He says there was no internal struggle. That to me, doesn’t sound like a mental problem. It’s no more crazy than me doing a suspension because I was curious about how it would feel, or me getting a piercing because I like the way it looks.
I do agree that there is a difference between wanting to do something and needing to do it. In some cases, voluntary amputation is driven by a psychological problem. But this doesn’t seem to be one of them to me.
And even when it is psychologically driven, there is most often an end goal, and when that’s reached, they’re done. There’s been quite a bit of research to support this. Unlike anoretics, where there is never a real end goal and they keep going indefinitely, most voluntary amputees reach a set goal and stop. I’m not saying it’s healthy or that I would recommend for those with a psychological need for amputations to pursue it in all cases, but as long as they have an end goal and actually stop there and it solves the problem (and it usually does), then who am I to tell them not to do it?
“I don’t think Shannon was saying with that comment that he supported the tattooing of the dog at all.”
Well, the contexts of all his posts on that subject read as a defence to me.
“As for mental illness vs. body modification, We have no evidence at all that this guy is doing these amputations due to some psychological problem.”
On the contrary, I think it could be argued that certain features of his practices point exactly that way, such as the apparent lack of forethought given to at least some of his amputations, and the fact that he’s hiding it from his wife. I’m not necessarily making that argument.
“And even when it is psychologically driven, there is most often an end goal, and when that’s reached, they’re done.”
Well sure, but that doesn’t make it any less pathological, does it?
“I don’t think Shannon was saying with that comment that he supported the tattooing of the dog at all.”
Well, the contexts of all his posts on that subject read as a defence to me.
“As for mental illness vs. body modification, We have no evidence at all that this guy is doing these amputations due to some psychological problem.”
On the contrary, I think it could be argued that certain features of his practices point exactly that way, such as the apparent lack of forethought given to at least some of his amputations, and the fact that he’s hiding it from his wife. I’m not necessarily making that argument.
“And even when it is psychologically driven, there is most often an end goal, and when that’s reached, they’re done.”
Well sure, but that doesn’t make it any less pathological, does it?
I’m sorry but that is hot as hot can be. I’m still trying to find a way to amputate the tip of my left ring finger without my husband knowing I did it myself. He already is hiding the cigar cutters from me. 🙂
I’m sorry but that is hot as hot can be. I’m still trying to find a way to amputate the tip of my left ring finger without my husband knowing I did it myself. He already is hiding the cigar cutters from me. 🙂
Well, he did say “Personally, I wouldn’t tattoo a dog”…
And I do think some of his procedures were, well, idiotic, but it sounds to me like they were pretty planned out, even if they didn’t go as planned (just one reason I’m not a big fan of DIY). As for him hiding it from his wife, I hide the fact that I smoke from my in-laws as does my husband. Does that mean we have psychological problems? No, it means my mother-in-law would lecture me for a month straight if she knew I smoked. People hide things for many reasons. It seems the reason here is apparent. Whether he’s crazy or not, his wife very well may think he is. She may not accept him. It’s the same reason gay people hid their sexuality.
And no, it doesn’t make it any less pathological. I’m 100% for those with psychological problems of any sort seeking therapy to deal with the issues rather than taking them into their own hands. It’s not always an easy step for someone to admit their problems to someone else. I’m not condoning his actions if they are due to some mental problem. But it’s not my body. I don’t know what’s going on here, so I’m going to reserve judgment. It’s his body, his right. Do I agree with it? No, not in the least. I would never do this myself, nor do I support his choices. But I do support his right to make those choices. I personally believe that anyone with some psychological need should seek amputation as a last-ditch option and attempt therapy first. But unfortunately that doesn’t always happen. And I’m not saying that just because there’s a set end-goal, that somehow makes it more ok than other illnesses like anorexia, but most often, it’s nowhere near as devastating. I know a guy who removed his own testicles. He was unhappy before and now he’s happy. I wish he could have been happy without having to go through with it, but if doing it made his life better for him, what right do I have to judge his decision?
Shannon’s amputation posts always bring up conversations like these, and it always turns into a debate. I tend to be of the “it’s their body…” mindset. I don’t always agree with things but, well, it is his body. I can’t say he’s wrong without feeling just as shitty and judgmental as my grandmother who thinks I’ve mutilated my body by getting genital piercings.
Well, he did say “Personally, I wouldn’t tattoo a dog”…
And I do think some of his procedures were, well, idiotic, but it sounds to me like they were pretty planned out, even if they didn’t go as planned (just one reason I’m not a big fan of DIY). As for him hiding it from his wife, I hide the fact that I smoke from my in-laws as does my husband. Does that mean we have psychological problems? No, it means my mother-in-law would lecture me for a month straight if she knew I smoked. People hide things for many reasons. It seems the reason here is apparent. Whether he’s crazy or not, his wife very well may think he is. She may not accept him. It’s the same reason gay people hid their sexuality.
And no, it doesn’t make it any less pathological. I’m 100% for those with psychological problems of any sort seeking therapy to deal with the issues rather than taking them into their own hands. It’s not always an easy step for someone to admit their problems to someone else. I’m not condoning his actions if they are due to some mental problem. But it’s not my body. I don’t know what’s going on here, so I’m going to reserve judgment. It’s his body, his right. Do I agree with it? No, not in the least. I would never do this myself, nor do I support his choices. But I do support his right to make those choices. I personally believe that anyone with some psychological need should seek amputation as a last-ditch option and attempt therapy first. But unfortunately that doesn’t always happen. And I’m not saying that just because there’s a set end-goal, that somehow makes it more ok than other illnesses like anorexia, but most often, it’s nowhere near as devastating. I know a guy who removed his own testicles. He was unhappy before and now he’s happy. I wish he could have been happy without having to go through with it, but if doing it made his life better for him, what right do I have to judge his decision?
Shannon’s amputation posts always bring up conversations like these, and it always turns into a debate. I tend to be of the “it’s their body…” mindset. I don’t always agree with things but, well, it is his body. I can’t say he’s wrong without feeling just as shitty and judgmental as my grandmother who thinks I’ve mutilated my body by getting genital piercings.
Some valid points.
But what this post really leaves me wondering is, how on earth does your grandmother know about your genital piercings?
Some valid points.
But what this post really leaves me wondering is, how on earth does your grandmother know about your genital piercings?
lol. my sister asked me one how bad it hurt not knowing gramma was standing 2 feet away.
lol. my sister asked me one how bad it hurt not knowing gramma was standing 2 feet away.
his left toe looks exactly like mine…
his left toe looks exactly like mine…
The interview did not change my opinion of people who self-amputate, or create infections to force doctors to amputate. His poor wife, she was probably beside herself with worry…
The interview did not change my opinion of people who self-amputate, or create infections to force doctors to amputate. His poor wife, she was probably beside herself with worry…
I’m glad he’s happy, but in some ways I wish he’d tell his wife. However, it is his body and his life, so he may do as he pleases.
I’m glad he’s happy, but in some ways I wish he’d tell his wife. However, it is his body and his life, so he may do as he pleases.
“I see this as more along the lines of a gay guy married to a woman who is cheating on her with guys. Not simply a gay man married to a woman who is trying to come to terms with his sexuality and/or trying to figure out how to tell her. I don’t know if that makes sense or not…
In the first case, the guy is actively pursuing something that is directly harmful to his wife. In the second, he’s contemplating and attempting to come to terms with something before telling his wife. I see a difference there.
And I do think some of his procedures were, well, idiotic, but it sounds to me like they were pretty planned out, even if they didn’t go as planned
As for him hiding it from his wife, I hide the fact that I smoke from my in-laws as does my husband. Does that mean we have psychological problems? No, it means my mother-in-law would lecture me for a month straight if she knew I smoked. People hide things for many reasons. It seems the reason here is apparent. Whether he’s crazy or not, his wife very well may think he is. She may not accept him. It’s the same reason gay people hid their sexuality.”
—crystallinectar—
i agree with the first bit
they werent all planned out
“On one toe I was just “playing” with an old chisel I found… I put it on my toe and pushed too hard and it went right through the bone — I then just had to push harder until the toe was amputated. Of course, an infection set in because the chisel was dirty and I had to go to hospital where they did a ray amputation” -from the interview
you arent married to your in-laws, hideing something from your SO is very different than hideing it from anyone else, you’re chooseing to spend your life with him, the in-laws are just part of the package
i dont understand why hes hideing from his wife, why would he want to be with someone who doesnt accept him?
only good can come of telling her -she accepts it and they have a better relationship or -they divorce and find better relationships
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
this whole situation is just unfair to his wife
hes making her worry about his accidents and hes spending a lot of their money every month on this
even more if he goes threw with the above the knee amputation
“a prosthetic arm or a leg above the knee usually costs between $10,000 and $15,000. Some are as much as $35,000.”
-http://www.boston.com/business/globe/articles/2005/07/05/cost_of_prosthetics_stirs_debate/
add onto the cost of the actual prosthetic -surgery -increased insurance -fittings -repairs over the years -physical therapy -possibly a wheel chair
the whole money thing would be different if she knew what was going on and agreed to it
when your married or even living together such big decisions need to be made together
~~~~~~~~~~~~
to me amputation is very real, i know 2, and i almost was one
*my uncle has 1/2 a left foot just like this guy, it even has the hoof look, it was from a helicopter accident when he was in the navy (before i was born)
*granddad had both legs amputated below the knee due to infection and denying the serious-ness out of fear, it was not intentional though (when i was around 10)
*as a newborn i almost lost my whole left leg due to blood being put in too fast, i still have pain and weakness in it
i remeber the recovery my granddad went threw, the phantom pains, being rubbed sore by prosthetics, all the fittings he had to go threw, learning to walk (physical therapy), getting a car modified and learning to drive it… thankfully the VA covered a good bit of it
it still hurt the family a lot financially
“I see this as more along the lines of a gay guy married to a woman who is cheating on her with guys. Not simply a gay man married to a woman who is trying to come to terms with his sexuality and/or trying to figure out how to tell her. I don’t know if that makes sense or not…
In the first case, the guy is actively pursuing something that is directly harmful to his wife. In the second, he’s contemplating and attempting to come to terms with something before telling his wife. I see a difference there.
And I do think some of his procedures were, well, idiotic, but it sounds to me like they were pretty planned out, even if they didn’t go as planned
As for him hiding it from his wife, I hide the fact that I smoke from my in-laws as does my husband. Does that mean we have psychological problems? No, it means my mother-in-law would lecture me for a month straight if she knew I smoked. People hide things for many reasons. It seems the reason here is apparent. Whether he’s crazy or not, his wife very well may think he is. She may not accept him. It’s the same reason gay people hid their sexuality.”
—crystallinectar—
i agree with the first bit
they werent all planned out
“On one toe I was just “playing” with an old chisel I found… I put it on my toe and pushed too hard and it went right through the bone — I then just had to push harder until the toe was amputated. Of course, an infection set in because the chisel was dirty and I had to go to hospital where they did a ray amputation” -from the interview
you arent married to your in-laws, hideing something from your SO is very different than hideing it from anyone else, you’re chooseing to spend your life with him, the in-laws are just part of the package
i dont understand why hes hideing from his wife, why would he want to be with someone who doesnt accept him?
only good can come of telling her -she accepts it and they have a better relationship or -they divorce and find better relationships
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
this whole situation is just unfair to his wife
hes making her worry about his accidents and hes spending a lot of their money every month on this
even more if he goes threw with the above the knee amputation
“a prosthetic arm or a leg above the knee usually costs between $10,000 and $15,000. Some are as much as $35,000.”
-http://www.boston.com/business/globe/articles/2005/07/05/cost_of_prosthetics_stirs_debate/
add onto the cost of the actual prosthetic -surgery -increased insurance -fittings -repairs over the years -physical therapy -possibly a wheel chair
the whole money thing would be different if she knew what was going on and agreed to it
when your married or even living together such big decisions need to be made together
~~~~~~~~~~~~
to me amputation is very real, i know 2, and i almost was one
*my uncle has 1/2 a left foot just like this guy, it even has the hoof look, it was from a helicopter accident when he was in the navy (before i was born)
*granddad had both legs amputated below the knee due to infection and denying the serious-ness out of fear, it was not intentional though (when i was around 10)
*as a newborn i almost lost my whole left leg due to blood being put in too fast, i still have pain and weakness in it
i remeber the recovery my granddad went threw, the phantom pains, being rubbed sore by prosthetics, all the fittings he had to go threw, learning to walk (physical therapy), getting a car modified and learning to drive it… thankfully the VA covered a good bit of it
it still hurt the family a lot financially
in response to “m”:
i meant that things he planned to be amputations were well thought out. he didn’t initially mean for that to be an amputation. there’s a difference. hence why i said some of the stuff he did was idiotic.
as for not telling his wife–i never said i agreed with that decision. i was merely pointing out that not telling his wife in no way implies that he has a psychological problem. he most certainly should tell his wife, but not doing so doesn’t provide evidence that he’s crazy. yes, she should be informed, yes she should know why the money’s being spent.
as for prosthetics, i think cost is a big issue. if he wants one after his leg amputation, i can only hope he can afford to pay for it out of pocket and not go through insurance. that i have an issue with. then again, i would also be pissed if he used a handicapped parking space. maybe i’m weird in thinking that, but eh.
in response to “m”:
i meant that things he planned to be amputations were well thought out. he didn’t initially mean for that to be an amputation. there’s a difference. hence why i said some of the stuff he did was idiotic.
as for not telling his wife–i never said i agreed with that decision. i was merely pointing out that not telling his wife in no way implies that he has a psychological problem. he most certainly should tell his wife, but not doing so doesn’t provide evidence that he’s crazy. yes, she should be informed, yes she should know why the money’s being spent.
as for prosthetics, i think cost is a big issue. if he wants one after his leg amputation, i can only hope he can afford to pay for it out of pocket and not go through insurance. that i have an issue with. then again, i would also be pissed if he used a handicapped parking space. maybe i’m weird in thinking that, but eh.
While this is beyond my own personal limits, I’m interested to know more about amputation. One thing that I didn’t like, though, was how he induced the infection in order to get the amputation. I just believe its one thing to be taking responsiblity for yourself, and another to be putting it into someone elses hands, and to be quite honest, to someone in the medical profession it makes me feel he has not got a lot of respect for what we do. What about the patients who genuinely need care? I hope I’m not being terribly offensive or obnoxious, and I admit that I don’t have much of an understanding of this, but I just wanted to put my view out there.
While this is beyond my own personal limits, I’m interested to know more about amputation. One thing that I didn’t like, though, was how he induced the infection in order to get the amputation. I just believe its one thing to be taking responsiblity for yourself, and another to be putting it into someone elses hands, and to be quite honest, to someone in the medical profession it makes me feel he has not got a lot of respect for what we do. What about the patients who genuinely need care? I hope I’m not being terribly offensive or obnoxious, and I admit that I don’t have much of an understanding of this, but I just wanted to put my view out there.
hey, nowadays middle aged women are getting their toes reduced or entirely taken off just to wear a fucking pair of heals. what kind of fucking reason is that? *for those who don’t know me, i hate yuppy right wing assholes* they declare that it is for fashion. what kind of fashion is getting your toes cut off to wear heals? me myself, i brand myself for personal reasons, and amputating your toes or fingers is a personal reason for them. that’s a good reason to do something to yourself physically. i support any type of body modification regardless of whether i would do it or not, but if i see these “fashion sufferers” getting their toes reduced and the media and all the fucking public say “aw, poor woman. she is having parts of her body cut off to fit in.” i say bullshit. there’s no fucking pitty for them. but if someone such as this person amputates their own fucking toe by themself, they are considered an outcast and should be shunned away from society. i started branding myself when i was 16 as a way to deal with my depression. the pain took my mind off of the bad thoughts. and i’m not disrespecting people who cut themselves for mod purposes, but i hate those emo motherfucking bitches who cry and say life sucks, why bother living? i say fuck them. grow a pair. i’m sorry if anybody here has ever had someone they knew commit suicide, but that’s bullshit. cutting for fun i understand, but emo people cut for attention and once again, the media eats that shit up. my father has diabetic neuropothy *sorry for the spelling* and his feet are constantly both numb and in pain. he can barely walk *if you want to call it that* and has random pains in his feet. i’m not talking “ow i stubbed my toe” i’m talking about people call 911 when they see my dad in pain because he’s leaning so far back and can barely breath and grits his teeth. his fingers are also part of it. they too are going numb. he has a good way of hiding it from my mom, but he has cigarette burns on his fingers because he can’t feel the burn. what kind of life is that? and he has to take anti-
hey, nowadays middle aged women are getting their toes reduced or entirely taken off just to wear a fucking pair of heals. what kind of fucking reason is that? *for those who don’t know me, i hate yuppy right wing assholes* they declare that it is for fashion. what kind of fashion is getting your toes cut off to wear heals? me myself, i brand myself for personal reasons, and amputating your toes or fingers is a personal reason for them. that’s a good reason to do something to yourself physically. i support any type of body modification regardless of whether i would do it or not, but if i see these “fashion sufferers” getting their toes reduced and the media and all the fucking public say “aw, poor woman. she is having parts of her body cut off to fit in.” i say bullshit. there’s no fucking pitty for them. but if someone such as this person amputates their own fucking toe by themself, they are considered an outcast and should be shunned away from society. i started branding myself when i was 16 as a way to deal with my depression. the pain took my mind off of the bad thoughts. and i’m not disrespecting people who cut themselves for mod purposes, but i hate those emo motherfucking bitches who cry and say life sucks, why bother living? i say fuck them. grow a pair. i’m sorry if anybody here has ever had someone they knew commit suicide, but that’s bullshit. cutting for fun i understand, but emo people cut for attention and once again, the media eats that shit up. my father has diabetic neuropothy *sorry for the spelling* and his feet are constantly both numb and in pain. he can barely walk *if you want to call it that* and has random pains in his feet. i’m not talking “ow i stubbed my toe” i’m talking about people call 911 when they see my dad in pain because he’s leaning so far back and can barely breath and grits his teeth. his fingers are also part of it. they too are going numb. he has a good way of hiding it from my mom, but he has cigarette burns on his fingers because he can’t feel the burn. what kind of life is that? and he has to take anti-