I vaguely remember crying this much when I first had my ears pierced, I’ve toughened up a bit in the ten years since then though.
Humour aside if it were my kid (or if I were the piercer for that matter) I really would have to search myself very hard for any reason why it would be necessary or fair to pierce someone so young, someone that still isn’t able to control bodily functions most adults take for granted, let alone decide if it’s what they want. It certainly can’t be so they’re popular at nursery school, or because “all the other babies are doing it”.
Granted the physical trauma is minimal but I just don’t believe a baby belongs in a piercing environment, at all..
No offence to the mother (I’m assuming she’s the mother) in the photo but seeing my child in obvious distress, whether it be through physical pain, emotional stress or otherwise, would definitely lead me to reassess any decision that caused that distress, for a decade or so anyway.
I’m sure posting this will restart the “should kids be pierced” debate, so click the previous links then come back here if you feel like taking part or shouting at each other. Just don’t take the last two seriously..
Comments
476 responses to “Cry Baby”
#98: Dagon:
Cultural tradition has everything to do with it!
This is why is is not “wrong” in some cultures
Cultural tradition is why some here “think” it is wrong
culture and tradition mandates what is socially “wrong”
whats “right” for me is “wrong” for you
#98: Dagon:
Cultural tradition has everything to do with it!
This is why is is not “wrong” in some cultures
Cultural tradition is why some here “think” it is wrong
culture and tradition mandates what is socially “wrong”
whats “right” for me is “wrong” for you
OK, so I wouldn’t do this to my kid. My daughter has started asking, and she’s 8, and I’m still not letting her. I got my lobes done when I was 14 – after much begging – by a gun somewhere. Followed by several weeks of infection…which may or may not be related.
Point is, I wasn’t old enough to understand the aftercare required – even if it was ever explained to me or my Mum properly (my Mum was and still is totally clueless about such things). Having said that, they did heal, and are still there 21 years later, and I can happily go weeks without wearing jewellery without them healing up. All my subsequent piercings have been done “properly” by needles and professionals, and I’ve had way less grief with ‘em.
It’s not just the piercing itself though. Playgrounds can be rough places at the best of times – without adding earrings that can be ripped out. Kids are supposed to play in the dirt – good for the immune system etc – but not so good for piercings.
I just find it hard to understand the justification for doing this to your child. That is not a happy face you’re seeing there… I will let my daughter have hers done – properly by someone I trust – when she’s old enough to really know what she wants, and to understand the consequences of that. Including the pain!
OK, so I wouldn’t do this to my kid. My daughter has started asking, and she’s 8, and I’m still not letting her. I got my lobes done when I was 14 – after much begging – by a gun somewhere. Followed by several weeks of infection…which may or may not be related.
Point is, I wasn’t old enough to understand the aftercare required – even if it was ever explained to me or my Mum properly (my Mum was and still is totally clueless about such things). Having said that, they did heal, and are still there 21 years later, and I can happily go weeks without wearing jewellery without them healing up. All my subsequent piercings have been done “properly” by needles and professionals, and I’ve had way less grief with ‘em.
It’s not just the piercing itself though. Playgrounds can be rough places at the best of times – without adding earrings that can be ripped out. Kids are supposed to play in the dirt – good for the immune system etc – but not so good for piercings.
I just find it hard to understand the justification for doing this to your child. That is not a happy face you’re seeing there… I will let my daughter have hers done – properly by someone I trust – when she’s old enough to really know what she wants, and to understand the consequences of that. Including the pain!
WHO KNOWS, THE KID MIGHT END UP TO BE HEAVILY BODY MOD IN THE FUTURE.
WHO KNOWS, THE KID MIGHT END UP TO BE HEAVILY BODY MOD IN THE FUTURE.
britishinvasion, i’m sure that if you feel the back of the cartilage piercings there will be bits of raised tissue or cartilage? That’s the cracked cartilage.
And if your ears healed fine to a gunned cartilage, i’m sure they’d heal even better to a needled cartilage.
britishinvasion, i’m sure that if you feel the back of the cartilage piercings there will be bits of raised tissue or cartilage? That’s the cracked cartilage.
And if your ears healed fine to a gunned cartilage, i’m sure they’d heal even better to a needled cartilage.
For all the cultural relativists defending this on the basis of it being considered ok in some cultures, the usual ‘food for thought’ rejoinder is to ask if it is them ok to do any number of horrible things just because some culture at some time didn’t object to them – by this basis rape and murder can become ok. Yes, cultural relativity is good at showing how many ideas and ethics are dependent upon a prevailing societal opinion but you don’t stop there, the next step is to realize that any good ethical system will then be based upon trans-cultural prinicples such as doing no undeserved harm (‘undeserved harm’ is how evil is often defined for terms of ethical discussion). When a cultural practice violates such principles it can very rightly be said to be wrong.
Now, to be productive please turn your discussion towards arguing whether or not having your incapable of consenting baby pierced in an unhygenic, unprofessional manner constitutes undeserved harm (and/or unacceptable risk thereof)
For all the cultural relativists defending this on the basis of it being considered ok in some cultures, the usual ‘food for thought’ rejoinder is to ask if it is them ok to do any number of horrible things just because some culture at some time didn’t object to them – by this basis rape and murder can become ok. Yes, cultural relativity is good at showing how many ideas and ethics are dependent upon a prevailing societal opinion but you don’t stop there, the next step is to realize that any good ethical system will then be based upon trans-cultural prinicples such as doing no undeserved harm (‘undeserved harm’ is how evil is often defined for terms of ethical discussion). When a cultural practice violates such principles it can very rightly be said to be wrong.
Now, to be productive please turn your discussion towards arguing whether or not having your incapable of consenting baby pierced in an unhygenic, unprofessional manner constitutes undeserved harm (and/or unacceptable risk thereof)
her kid she can do what she wants.
her kid she can do what she wants.
Max Brand ‘ “what if your baby or kid had to get a shot at the doctor….”
I was referring to piercings, not something that could prevent illness.
Max Brand ‘ “what if your baby or kid had to get a shot at the doctor….”
I was referring to piercings, not something that could prevent illness.
i was circumcised as an infant, i obviously didnt have any say in it, so i don’t see much of a difference or am i wrong in this comparison
i was circumcised as an infant, i obviously didnt have any say in it, so i don’t see much of a difference or am i wrong in this comparison
my point is, and no one has pointed this out, is that: is it just me, or is that a little low and to the left?
people have pointed out the distress the kid is under. believe me, thirtysomething soccer moms are worse. at least babies don’t try to argue that it’s possible to use even tinier jewelry on an initial nostril piercing.
i have no beef with people piercing their infants. i won’t do it, but it’s because i hate kids. just get them done IN THE RIGHT SPOT for fuck’s sake. but when people like me say no, they wind up at the mall.
my point is, and no one has pointed this out, is that: is it just me, or is that a little low and to the left?
people have pointed out the distress the kid is under. believe me, thirtysomething soccer moms are worse. at least babies don’t try to argue that it’s possible to use even tinier jewelry on an initial nostril piercing.
i have no beef with people piercing their infants. i won’t do it, but it’s because i hate kids. just get them done IN THE RIGHT SPOT for fuck’s sake. but when people like me say no, they wind up at the mall.
i wanna see some tattooed babies
i wanna see some tattooed babies
I dont know if this has been said or not BUT, the pain lasts a fraction of a second on the initial piercing. What is the difference between that and getting immunized at the doctor? I hate watching little ones get their shots let alone babies getting ears peirced. thats my two cents on that part…
I personally wouldnt pierce my daughters ears till she was old enough to ask for it and i knew she understood it would be kinda owwie for a little while… but yeah, I think its more of a personal conviction and choice of the parent to decide if they are going to wait till an age of understanding or doing it without consent.
I dont know if this has been said or not BUT, the pain lasts a fraction of a second on the initial piercing. What is the difference between that and getting immunized at the doctor? I hate watching little ones get their shots let alone babies getting ears peirced. thats my two cents on that part…
I personally wouldnt pierce my daughters ears till she was old enough to ask for it and i knew she understood it would be kinda owwie for a little while… but yeah, I think its more of a personal conviction and choice of the parent to decide if they are going to wait till an age of understanding or doing it without consent.
Ear piercing on children is up there with circumcision – don’t do it. It’s their body, leave it to them to make a choice to modify it when they’re of an age to make an informed decision. Ear piercing < < < genital modification in the grand scheme of things, but it’s still not right.
Ear piercing on children is up there with circumcision – don’t do it. It’s their body, leave it to them to make a choice to modify it when they’re of an age to make an informed decision. Ear piercing < < < genital modification in the grand scheme of things, but it’s still not right.
i see nothing wrong with it after all peeps circumsize some kids that don’t have a choice so i think ear piercing is way less tramatic than that if the kid don’t like it she can always decide to take it out when she gets older that simple
i see nothing wrong with it after all peeps circumsize some kids that don’t have a choice so i think ear piercing is way less tramatic than that if the kid don’t like it she can always decide to take it out when she gets older that simple
ALSO… i would like to comment on the “culture and open-mindedness” of modblog. if she were african and stabbing a massive bone through her child’s lip it would be “OOOH THAT IS THEIR CULTURE.” or cutting her daughter’s clit off. oh… wait i forgot white people can’t get away with doing things like that.
ALSO… i would like to comment on the “culture and open-mindedness” of modblog. if she were african and stabbing a massive bone through her child’s lip it would be “OOOH THAT IS THEIR CULTURE.” or cutting her daughter’s clit off. oh… wait i forgot white people can’t get away with doing things like that.
and… 105… you just rambled and said almost nothing coherent. intelligent words thrown together in an artistic witty order does nothing. get over your life.
and… 105… you just rambled and said almost nothing coherent. intelligent words thrown together in an artistic witty order does nothing. get over your life.
i dont really have a problem w/ babies getting an ear piercing, but i dont like that it is a “piercing gun”…i think it would be better if it was a professional piercer doin it…just my opinion tho…
i dont really have a problem w/ babies getting an ear piercing, but i dont like that it is a “piercing gun”…i think it would be better if it was a professional piercer doin it…just my opinion tho…
well, if babies should not get pierced what about male circumcision of babies? at least ear piercings are reversible. as for the pain and sad baby faces, i want you to think of your most painful moment. you remember it was painful, but you can’t remember the level of pain. you cant remember the first 2 years of your life nor the amount of pain of any painful memory, i doubt you’d remember you ears being pierced.
well, if babies should not get pierced what about male circumcision of babies? at least ear piercings are reversible. as for the pain and sad baby faces, i want you to think of your most painful moment. you remember it was painful, but you can’t remember the level of pain. you cant remember the first 2 years of your life nor the amount of pain of any painful memory, i doubt you’d remember you ears being pierced.
mothore – WHOA, what was that for? seriously.
mothore – WHOA, what was that for? seriously.
i wish my mom had pierced my ears when i was a baby. i didnt get them done till i was 12 and i messed with them and they got all infect =(
i think i would wait till they were 2 or so and actually knew what was going on and i dont think i would take them to a loud, scary shop. i’ld have a friend come over and do it.
i would want what i had to go thru happen to my kids
i wish my mom had pierced my ears when i was a baby. i didnt get them done till i was 12 and i messed with them and they got all infect =(
i think i would wait till they were 2 or so and actually knew what was going on and i dont think i would take them to a loud, scary shop. i’ld have a friend come over and do it.
i would want what i had to go thru happen to my kids
bt – go take ethics 101 and then try reading again for comphrehension. That post doesn’t ramble and is perfectly coherent – it is, in fact, taken from the standard syllabus of introductory discussions of ethics (a subject I once taught) which almost always reach the cultural relativism point very quickly and then stall – not unlike internet comment threads.
bt – go take ethics 101 and then try reading again for comphrehension. That post doesn’t ramble and is perfectly coherent – it is, in fact, taken from the standard syllabus of introductory discussions of ethics (a subject I once taught) which almost always reach the cultural relativism point very quickly and then stall – not unlike internet comment threads.
I don’t know why people keep linking this back to female circumcision in African cultures, or FGM, female genital mutilation.
Anthropologists and anthropological theorists have spent years and years arguing over whether a strictly observant stance should be taken on FGM.
Should anthropologists strictly document this practice and say nothing (bar their opinion once they’re writing it up in an ethnography), or should they say something about the brutality of the practice (you can’t argue it’s not brutal) to the people doing the “ritual”, should they try to educate the people about the pain a woman goes through once they’ve been infibulated, or the dirty rusty blunt razors used?
Cultural relativism is a wonderful thing in my opinion, it’s a great tool for understanding why things were/are done in a particular place at a particular time. But there are times when harm is being done to someone, like a child without the ability to consent, that you’ve just gotta step the fuck up and say something.
That’s a trendy fuckin’ store with cheap shit in the background. It’s a piercing gun for fucks sake. That child could’ve been pierced later in life in a much better way with their fuckin’ consent.
The bitch has a crappy lil tattoo too, so she probably thinks she’s doing something great by giving her kid the gift of modification. It’s disgusting.
I don’t know why people keep linking this back to female circumcision in African cultures, or FGM, female genital mutilation.
Anthropologists and anthropological theorists have spent years and years arguing over whether a strictly observant stance should be taken on FGM.
Should anthropologists strictly document this practice and say nothing (bar their opinion once they’re writing it up in an ethnography), or should they say something about the brutality of the practice (you can’t argue it’s not brutal) to the people doing the “ritual”, should they try to educate the people about the pain a woman goes through once they’ve been infibulated, or the dirty rusty blunt razors used?
Cultural relativism is a wonderful thing in my opinion, it’s a great tool for understanding why things were/are done in a particular place at a particular time. But there are times when harm is being done to someone, like a child without the ability to consent, that you’ve just gotta step the fuck up and say something.
That’s a trendy fuckin’ store with cheap shit in the background. It’s a piercing gun for fucks sake. That child could’ve been pierced later in life in a much better way with their fuckin’ consent.
The bitch has a crappy lil tattoo too, so she probably thinks she’s doing something great by giving her kid the gift of modification. It’s disgusting.
Can I just say that I love reading peoples comments on controvercial posts like this one. Keep arguing, its really interesting. If it goes this way, this post might outdo the first skullboy post in terms of comments!
Can I just say that I love reading peoples comments on controvercial posts like this one. Keep arguing, its really interesting. If it goes this way, this post might outdo the first skullboy post in terms of comments!
Excellent post from the lizardman. Tradition and culture can tell us whether something is considered right or wrong in that society but it doesn’t tell us whether it is MORALLY right or wrong (There is philosophical discussion on this but it would take a bit long to go into it here)
For those of you saying the baby won’t remember the piercing and that makes it ok. Does that mean date rape with a drug that makes you forget the is experience ok?
Obviously I’m objecting to the practice, since there is no benefit to the child and the chance for infection, bad placement etc. is unacceptable.
And finally for those pointing out infant male circumcision, I’d say that is even worse than this and should not be practiced either, given that it causes severe discomfort, serves no medical purpose, and could cause problems for the child in the future (especially in areas where circumcision is not the norm, I know guys who have been teased because they were forcibly circumcised at birth)
Excellent post from the lizardman. Tradition and culture can tell us whether something is considered right or wrong in that society but it doesn’t tell us whether it is MORALLY right or wrong (There is philosophical discussion on this but it would take a bit long to go into it here)
For those of you saying the baby won’t remember the piercing and that makes it ok. Does that mean date rape with a drug that makes you forget the is experience ok?
Obviously I’m objecting to the practice, since there is no benefit to the child and the chance for infection, bad placement etc. is unacceptable.
And finally for those pointing out infant male circumcision, I’d say that is even worse than this and should not be practiced either, given that it causes severe discomfort, serves no medical purpose, and could cause problems for the child in the future (especially in areas where circumcision is not the norm, I know guys who have been teased because they were forcibly circumcised at birth)
I actually have a friend of mine with a baby that was advised by her physician to have her baby’s ears pierced at only 6 months old. His reasoning? They are less likely to “play” with them and get them infected by touching. I, personally, think this is ridiculous. But my friend went through with it anyway and had her baby’s ears pierced. Guess what? They got infected.
I actually have a friend of mine with a baby that was advised by her physician to have her baby’s ears pierced at only 6 months old. His reasoning? They are less likely to “play” with them and get them infected by touching. I, personally, think this is ridiculous. But my friend went through with it anyway and had her baby’s ears pierced. Guess what? They got infected.
It really bothers me to see other mothers doing this to their children . It’s pretty easy to tell the baby is in pain. Doesn’t matter if it’s emotion, physical or both. I could NEVER do something like this to my daughter. She’s 3 and has started to ask about getting her ears pierced. As her mother I know that she isn’t ready for it (not to say that some 3y.o. aren’t). When you are someones parent you are suppose to look out for their well being and health.
Also my mom is Mexican. I got my ears pierced when I was a day old. With a sewing needle no less. Harmful pointless cultural practices need to end. Tradition is no reason to carry on something like this.
It really bothers me to see other mothers doing this to their children . It’s pretty easy to tell the baby is in pain. Doesn’t matter if it’s emotion, physical or both. I could NEVER do something like this to my daughter. She’s 3 and has started to ask about getting her ears pierced. As her mother I know that she isn’t ready for it (not to say that some 3y.o. aren’t). When you are someones parent you are suppose to look out for their well being and health.
Also my mom is Mexican. I got my ears pierced when I was a day old. With a sewing needle no less. Harmful pointless cultural practices need to end. Tradition is no reason to carry on something like this.