This photo is by Bellboy in Insaneskinarts in Sinapore. The reason I’m posting it is I’d like to raise the following subject for discussion — it’s very common in North America to see communist paraphenalia (the Hammer and Sickle, Stalin and Lenin, and so on) in the backgrounds of photos and no one really bats an eye at it. These days I’m seeing more and more Nazi paraphenalia from South America and Asia, which as far as I can tell is not strongly associated with neo-Nazism.
Each type of image of course represents an ideology that resulted in the needless genocidal deaths of millions of people, yet one tends to generate a knee jerk reaction and the other does not — I’ve gotten many taken-down requests over this photo, but effectively none over pro-Stalinist imagery for example. I assume it all boils down to cultural context?
Comments
180 responses to “Nazi Fetishism”
Living in Latin America, I know as a fact that the neo-nazi “movement” does exist in this part of the world in countries as random as Panama.
To be honest I find it weird, if Hitler would of gotten as far as he wanted and more, the first people to be executed and ill treated outside of europe would indeed be a latin, a black, and even an asian, simply because Hitler wanted what he saw as a perfect race and none of these fit his ideal.
I met the boys in Panama who where playing at being neo-nazis and boneheads, and to be honest it all seemed to be a game. The boy who led them was 100% latin, and didnt seem to understand the whole idea of the nazi movement.
All they did pretty much was go out every night get wasted and beat the living crap out of random people.
Living in Latin America, I know as a fact that the neo-nazi “movement” does exist in this part of the world in countries as random as Panama.
To be honest I find it weird, if Hitler would of gotten as far as he wanted and more, the first people to be executed and ill treated outside of europe would indeed be a latin, a black, and even an asian, simply because Hitler wanted what he saw as a perfect race and none of these fit his ideal.
I met the boys in Panama who where playing at being neo-nazis and boneheads, and to be honest it all seemed to be a game. The boy who led them was 100% latin, and didnt seem to understand the whole idea of the nazi movement.
All they did pretty much was go out every night get wasted and beat the living crap out of random people.
We (the west) have more of a problem with Nazi imagery than Communist imagery because we are taught about the nazis. I do not remember a single mention of communist crimes-against-humanity (or even communist crimes) when in public school.
We (the west) have more of a problem with Nazi imagery than Communist imagery because we are taught about the nazis. I do not remember a single mention of communist crimes-against-humanity (or even communist crimes) when in public school.
besides yknow, the cold war…
besides yknow, the cold war…
The hammer and sickle don’t necessarily represent that type of “communism” because its used for many socialist and true communist standpoints.
The hammer and sickle don’t necessarily represent that type of “communism” because its used for many socialist and true communist standpoints.
I think a main difference is that you can believe in communism without being pro-stalin or pro-lenin. many people are simply marxist. on the other hand you cant believe in the nazi movement without believing in hitler as he is the main component, not someone who just fucked up a good thing.
I think a main difference is that you can believe in communism without being pro-stalin or pro-lenin. many people are simply marxist. on the other hand you cant believe in the nazi movement without believing in hitler as he is the main component, not someone who just fucked up a good thing.
Having lived in a country that has had both fascist and communist/socialist regimes, Germany, I am very much against any sort of comparing dictatorships whatsoever,even if the crimes might be similar or the same. And not only were we taught in schools about crimes-against- humanity, but there are also enough people who survived the crimes and can tell you all the lovely details. There are enough people who have the “knee jerk” reaction, however, these people believe in freedom of speech. Whilst I am about to vomit whenever I see people wearing hammer and sickle, khomeini t-shirts, or people who think they must have a swastika flag in their living room (the sofa accessoire for the trendy nazi), I believe that they have a right to have it all. They would have been the first ones to take that right from me.
Having lived in a country that has had both fascist and communist/socialist regimes, Germany, I am very much against any sort of comparing dictatorships whatsoever,even if the crimes might be similar or the same. And not only were we taught in schools about crimes-against- humanity, but there are also enough people who survived the crimes and can tell you all the lovely details. There are enough people who have the “knee jerk” reaction, however, these people believe in freedom of speech. Whilst I am about to vomit whenever I see people wearing hammer and sickle, khomeini t-shirts, or people who think they must have a swastika flag in their living room (the sofa accessoire for the trendy nazi), I believe that they have a right to have it all. They would have been the first ones to take that right from me.
I think quite a lot of it is to do with how you were brought-up to be honest. I mean in the uk we’ve been told about ww2 and nazism since primary school and that continues throught most of our formal education. Where as i learnt about communism (and that was twice in sociology and english rather than in history lessons) latter inlife, then compared to the black and white teaching of ww2 it was taugh as shades of grey. It’ll be interesting to see what other people have to say on this.
I think quite a lot of it is to do with how you were brought-up to be honest. I mean in the uk we’ve been told about ww2 and nazism since primary school and that continues throught most of our formal education. Where as i learnt about communism (and that was twice in sociology and english rather than in history lessons) latter inlife, then compared to the black and white teaching of ww2 it was taugh as shades of grey. It’ll be interesting to see what other people have to say on this.
Well, communism is at it’s core socialism, while nazism is pure totalitarian fascism.
Well, communism is at it’s core socialism, while nazism is pure totalitarian fascism.
Fred: National socialism (nazism) is at it’s core socialism too, eh?
Fred: National socialism (nazism) is at it’s core socialism too, eh?
#6 has said it all.
Apostrophes are not that hard to use, people.
#6 has said it all.
Apostrophes are not that hard to use, people.
As some others have suggested: put it down to Western ignorance. People in the West simply aren’t as educated about things that occur(red) in the non-West. Images such as of figures like Mao Zedong (and hammers and sickles and so on) seem to be understood in the West in vague terms of Asian pop art.
But I would challenge the suggestion that non-Westerners don’t recognize or understand Nazi imagery. Whether they particularly associate it with neo-Nazism or not, they know what it stands for and by whom it was used.
As some others have suggested: put it down to Western ignorance. People in the West simply aren’t as educated about things that occur(red) in the non-West. Images such as of figures like Mao Zedong (and hammers and sickles and so on) seem to be understood in the West in vague terms of Asian pop art.
But I would challenge the suggestion that non-Westerners don’t recognize or understand Nazi imagery. Whether they particularly associate it with neo-Nazism or not, they know what it stands for and by whom it was used.
National Socialism is not socialism at it’s core. The term National Socialism is a contradiction. Socialism (and communism) is at core a international movement, ie “everyone or noone”. Perhaps the ideal socialist society (or communist society) is utopian, but that does not mean it’s not worth fighting for. Lenin and Stalin was not the founders of neither communism or socialism. In fact, it’s kind of remarkable that Stalin today isn’t described as a fascist leader, because that was what he was.
National Socialism was founded by Adolf Hitler and it’s stated quite clearly in his book Mein Kampf (the bible of Nazism) that in order for him (or anyone else in power) to succeed, a number of ethnic groups would have to be eradicated and kicked out of Germany. ie, national socialism teaches us that a certain group of people are better than others. Socialism teaches us that everyone is equally worth (or worthless if you so wish).
Neither neo-nazis or socialists/communists can deny that their ideology has caused many unnecessary deaths. The difference is that socialists/communists can honestly say that the deaths were meaningless, since what caused those deaths was really Stalinism. Neo-nazis can on the other hand never say that the 6 million dead jews and non-conformists was unnecessary, since it was planned from the get go and necessary for their ideology.
National Socialism is not socialism at it’s core. The term National Socialism is a contradiction. Socialism (and communism) is at core a international movement, ie “everyone or noone”. Perhaps the ideal socialist society (or communist society) is utopian, but that does not mean it’s not worth fighting for. Lenin and Stalin was not the founders of neither communism or socialism. In fact, it’s kind of remarkable that Stalin today isn’t described as a fascist leader, because that was what he was.
National Socialism was founded by Adolf Hitler and it’s stated quite clearly in his book Mein Kampf (the bible of Nazism) that in order for him (or anyone else in power) to succeed, a number of ethnic groups would have to be eradicated and kicked out of Germany. ie, national socialism teaches us that a certain group of people are better than others. Socialism teaches us that everyone is equally worth (or worthless if you so wish).
Neither neo-nazis or socialists/communists can deny that their ideology has caused many unnecessary deaths. The difference is that socialists/communists can honestly say that the deaths were meaningless, since what caused those deaths was really Stalinism. Neo-nazis can on the other hand never say that the 6 million dead jews and non-conformists was unnecessary, since it was planned from the get go and necessary for their ideology.
my IMHO, is that you can’t judge any histroical event as something totally black or white. (just don’t throw tomatoes at me, talking about nazi concentrational camps or soviet gulag), judging any event we should take into consideration the evironment that produced it. Hannah Arent in one of her books compared German NAzism and Soviet Communism. Basically making these 2 equal.
There are a few theories according to which hitler’s appearance on political stage of the Western Europe is the product of political manipulations of UK/France and others who could stop it in the beginning.
The same with Lenin and communists in Russian Empire
When revolution began, the west wanted two things: weak and chaotic russia= support anyone who wants to get independence (hello to Estonia/latvia/lithuania and ect)=> country with lots of natural resources at state of chaos can be easily expolited and occupied by others who can use those ( hello to UK/France, since 1917 to 19xx British Expeditonal copus/brigade somehow landed in Baku- city of one oil rich regions of Russian Empire- WTF were they doing on the territory of sovereign state and ally- hell knows, at this time in this region British applied laws which they used in all their colonies) In other parts of Empire different forces of other independent and not states appeared as well
if you go deep into Siberia, what will you hear? songs about evil Stalin/Lenin? where are 2 lines from one of them
my father is killed
and mother is burned
polaks were here
(Polish troops)
Why are you taught since elementary school about Hitler?- beacause your teachers want to tell you “no matter how different your political views are-don’t ever support psychos”
Because The West thought first- hitler is a barrier to the red diseas, second they thought that two monsters will eat each other.
P.S. according to statistics of red army somewhere around the time of the beginning of the Soviet Union “95% of new recruits ate meat first time in their life when they joined military”
PPS Swastica is the symbol of the Sun in for Buddists ( I think) Hitler fucked it up a little 😀
my IMHO, is that you can’t judge any histroical event as something totally black or white. (just don’t throw tomatoes at me, talking about nazi concentrational camps or soviet gulag), judging any event we should take into consideration the evironment that produced it. Hannah Arent in one of her books compared German NAzism and Soviet Communism. Basically making these 2 equal.
There are a few theories according to which hitler’s appearance on political stage of the Western Europe is the product of political manipulations of UK/France and others who could stop it in the beginning.
The same with Lenin and communists in Russian Empire
When revolution began, the west wanted two things: weak and chaotic russia= support anyone who wants to get independence (hello to Estonia/latvia/lithuania and ect)=> country with lots of natural resources at state of chaos can be easily expolited and occupied by others who can use those ( hello to UK/France, since 1917 to 19xx British Expeditonal copus/brigade somehow landed in Baku- city of one oil rich regions of Russian Empire- WTF were they doing on the territory of sovereign state and ally- hell knows, at this time in this region British applied laws which they used in all their colonies) In other parts of Empire different forces of other independent and not states appeared as well
if you go deep into Siberia, what will you hear? songs about evil Stalin/Lenin? where are 2 lines from one of them
my father is killed
and mother is burned
polaks were here
(Polish troops)
Why are you taught since elementary school about Hitler?- beacause your teachers want to tell you “no matter how different your political views are-don’t ever support psychos”
Because The West thought first- hitler is a barrier to the red diseas, second they thought that two monsters will eat each other.
P.S. according to statistics of red army somewhere around the time of the beginning of the Soviet Union “95% of new recruits ate meat first time in their life when they joined military”
PPS Swastica is the symbol of the Sun in for Buddists ( I think) Hitler fucked it up a little 😀
I wish I could find this one website i “stumbled upon”. It was a gallery of all the Hitler Bars and Cafes that have been opened in asian countries. Theres like 8 of them. Strange.
Heres a few pics of a few of them:
http://www.pusanweb.com/feature/hitlerbar/
http://volumeone.typepad.com/volume_one/2005/11/freaky_weird_ko.html
I wish I had the one with the cartoon hitler as it’s mascot. It’s too crazy.
I wish I could find this one website i “stumbled upon”. It was a gallery of all the Hitler Bars and Cafes that have been opened in asian countries. Theres like 8 of them. Strange.
Heres a few pics of a few of them:
http://www.pusanweb.com/feature/hitlerbar/
http://volumeone.typepad.com/volume_one/2005/11/freaky_weird_ko.html
I wish I had the one with the cartoon hitler as it’s mascot. It’s too crazy.
American schools teach all about American, western European and middle eastern (holy land) history, but don’t really even touch on anything else at all. Any American high school graduate (and most drop-outs) knows about the Roman Empire, the Crusades, the Civil war, and plenty about WWII. I’d guess that pretty much everyone in the USA is familiar with the Nazi concentration camps and knows about Auschwitz, and that hardly anyone knows about the Soviet Union’s Gulag and forced labor camps. Americans associate the Soviet Union with the Cold war, primarily the space race and the arms race. Americans associate Nazi Germany with with WWII and the Holocaust. So Soviet artifacts are seen primarily as pieces of history, and Nazi stuff is seen as evil. Additionally, there isn’t an issue with neo-Soviets wearing the hammer and sickle wreacking havoc on people.
So I suppose it is just cultural context based on what history gets taught in schools, at least in the USA. I’m curious if Canadians are taught similar.
American schools teach all about American, western European and middle eastern (holy land) history, but don’t really even touch on anything else at all. Any American high school graduate (and most drop-outs) knows about the Roman Empire, the Crusades, the Civil war, and plenty about WWII. I’d guess that pretty much everyone in the USA is familiar with the Nazi concentration camps and knows about Auschwitz, and that hardly anyone knows about the Soviet Union’s Gulag and forced labor camps. Americans associate the Soviet Union with the Cold war, primarily the space race and the arms race. Americans associate Nazi Germany with with WWII and the Holocaust. So Soviet artifacts are seen primarily as pieces of history, and Nazi stuff is seen as evil. Additionally, there isn’t an issue with neo-Soviets wearing the hammer and sickle wreacking havoc on people.
So I suppose it is just cultural context based on what history gets taught in schools, at least in the USA. I’m curious if Canadians are taught similar.
anyway, it’s a nice tattoo
anyway, it’s a nice tattoo
We view them differently because they were different. Lenin and Stalin murdered people to ferment fear and thereby stay in power. Hitler murdered people because he hated them. If expedience is a less evil motive than hatred, Lenin and Stalin are less evil than Hitler.
We view them differently because they were different. Lenin and Stalin murdered people to ferment fear and thereby stay in power. Hitler murdered people because he hated them. If expedience is a less evil motive than hatred, Lenin and Stalin are less evil than Hitler.
Oh this again.
First point: there never was a decent Nazi movement anywhere ever, whereas many groups with decent intentions have organised around Socialist beliefs, and have at the very least as much right to appropriate its symbols as the leaders of the USSR.
Second point: the case of people in Singapore etc. replicating images of Hitler, Nazis etc. has been addressed before on Modblog. I would compare it to someone from the west appropriating a Maori family tattoo. Tattooing certain images may cause great offence to people in the community from which you took them (for various reasons). Taking an image without knowing what it means does not make you a bad person (i.e a Nazi), but it does indicate that you are an ignoramus.
As an aside (since others brought it up), isn’t it interesting that both Stalin and Hitler had oxymoronic names for their movements (‘national socialism’ and ‘communism in one country’). Anyone would think that these politicians weren’t being entirely honest…I wouldn’t look for coherent political theory in either of them.
Oh this again.
First point: there never was a decent Nazi movement anywhere ever, whereas many groups with decent intentions have organised around Socialist beliefs, and have at the very least as much right to appropriate its symbols as the leaders of the USSR.
Second point: the case of people in Singapore etc. replicating images of Hitler, Nazis etc. has been addressed before on Modblog. I would compare it to someone from the west appropriating a Maori family tattoo. Tattooing certain images may cause great offence to people in the community from which you took them (for various reasons). Taking an image without knowing what it means does not make you a bad person (i.e a Nazi), but it does indicate that you are an ignoramus.
As an aside (since others brought it up), isn’t it interesting that both Stalin and Hitler had oxymoronic names for their movements (‘national socialism’ and ‘communism in one country’). Anyone would think that these politicians weren’t being entirely honest…I wouldn’t look for coherent political theory in either of them.
i’m going to avoid political debate here. but i think that the national socialist movement produced some stunning imagery.
i’m going to avoid political debate here. but i think that the national socialist movement produced some stunning imagery.
@13: The Swastica is a buddhist Symbol, but the Swastica on the Picture is a nazi-german one.
@Topic: Don’t matter if nazismn or communismn, it’s both bad. The difference is that the Hakenkreuz (the nazi-german Swastica) means the death of many souls and the hammer and sickle meens a state of farmers and craftsmen, the poor people. It was used by communists, but the symbol has it’s own meaning. The Swastica has one too, but this special one in the upper picture means hate against everyone that is not like the leader wants them to be.
@13: The Swastica is a buddhist Symbol, but the Swastica on the Picture is a nazi-german one.
@Topic: Don’t matter if nazismn or communismn, it’s both bad. The difference is that the Hakenkreuz (the nazi-german Swastica) means the death of many souls and the hammer and sickle meens a state of farmers and craftsmen, the poor people. It was used by communists, but the symbol has it’s own meaning. The Swastica has one too, but this special one in the upper picture means hate against everyone that is not like the leader wants them to be.
@16: they sure did. The Soviet regime produced some stunning imagery as well (uniforms, imagery, and so on)
@16: they sure did. The Soviet regime produced some stunning imagery as well (uniforms, imagery, and so on)
again; i find it amusing that its always the ‘alternative’ kids that seem to become obsessed with nazism or communism, as both focussed on such strict conservatism.
again; i find it amusing that its always the ‘alternative’ kids that seem to become obsessed with nazism or communism, as both focussed on such strict conservatism.
The flag shown is that of the Nazi party.
The bold black swastica,
the white circle
and the red background
all equal the Nazi party.
The plain swastica is a religious symbol, or the swasttica with dots in each hollow.
The one shown here is a sign of hate and death and ignorance.
The flag shown is that of the Nazi party.
The bold black swastica,
the white circle
and the red background
all equal the Nazi party.
The plain swastica is a religious symbol, or the swasttica with dots in each hollow.
The one shown here is a sign of hate and death and ignorance.
the tattoo is pretty interesting though….
i like the screaming face on his left calf.
i would like to take this opportunity to complain about leni riefenstahl: how in the hell did she get away?
the tattoo is pretty interesting though….
i like the screaming face on his left calf.
i would like to take this opportunity to complain about leni riefenstahl: how in the hell did she get away?
Every living fascist must get killed!!!
(A)
El único facho bueno es el ke esta muerto
Every living fascist must get killed!!!
(A)
El único facho bueno es el ke esta muerto