Update: First, the person in this procedure healed fine and is very happy. Second, I want to make it clear that while this procedure looks very intense, it’s probably less intense as a procedure than some large skin removal work, transscrotal piercings, implants, tongue splitting, and all the other procedures generally accepted by the body modification community.
Ok, this is a pretty gory entry. I apologize for that. But I think it’s important to emphasize that when you do large scale scarification (or sometimes small scale), sometimes the keloid grows out of control and starts getting very uncomfortable, restricting mobility, and so on. This piece was only about a month old in the photos below (it was done by a “well known body modification artist” who’s gonna stay unnamed because that’s not the point of the entry) and the customer was quite unhappy and wanted it dealt with.
Samppa Von Cyborg and Lukas Zpira got together to help him as much as they could. They felt that all of it was cut too deep, and did their best to excise the tissue, although the centre keloid was not removed (I’m assuming it was adhered right to the cartilage at bottom of the sternum). Starting with some exploratory cuts:
Mostly off and looking very gory:
As you can see, quite a chasm of tissue was removed! Check out the fatty tissue below:
Once stitched up, I can’t imagine how relived and happy the customer must have been. It’s a pretty intense removal, and a lot to go through, but Lukas and Samppa did a nice job restoring him… Hopefully the removal doesn’t have similar keloiding issues (sometimes it’s a problem that snowballs).
Finally, the gross out shot of the removed tissue:
Please take scarification seriously!!!
Comments
1,136 responses to “When scarification goes bad”
hy,
as lukas said i feel really great now, all the stiches are out and the scars look like scars not like alien as first, even if i got long scars too, i like it, cool stuff cause it look like my other work like tattoos.
i use tape to tie the scars, which are more than 3 weeks old, and use a very good mix of medecinal oils especially for cheloides.
to shannon and everyone, pictures soon, maybe post wednesday
have i hearded someone talk about inf…. i think it was infection, i can’t remember, whatever.. 🙂
hy,
as lukas said i feel really great now, all the stiches are out and the scars look like scars not like alien as first, even if i got long scars too, i like it, cool stuff cause it look like my other work like tattoos.
i use tape to tie the scars, which are more than 3 weeks old, and use a very good mix of medecinal oils especially for cheloides.
to shannon and everyone, pictures soon, maybe post wednesday
have i hearded someone talk about inf…. i think it was infection, i can’t remember, whatever.. 🙂
I am very glad to hear you are doing well, Bastien! Does it feel good to have so many BMEers so passionately interested in your health and welfare? 🙂
” this kind information should give to professional ppl only. I thought that it was good idea to share information to all ppl, but it seems that here ppl are too stupid or theyâre not ready for this kind âhardcoreâ? stuff. Iâm happy to share my knowledge, but not with idiots as i hate stupid ppl.” -Samppa
Hmm, so Samppa wants a seperate section of BME for professionals? Okeydoke. But, umm, what about all that rhetoric about not needing society telling us who can or cannot do things based on their level of training, experience and licensure? Maybe “professional” is defined as anyone who is as trained as he is, but not anyone who is less trained? And, I am curious how this section would admit new members. Would everyone who wants to join
send a copy of their business license, health inspections, etc? Unless I misread, Samppa has implied he practices in places where such things are not regulated, so how would he provide this proof?
As for limiting the debate to folks with memberships, well, I don’t see that that would have changed the discussion in the least. There have been some very well known members of the BME community (Erik, Kat, Moddoctor, Shannon) on both sides of the issue, and most with mixed opinions. All a password protected discussion forum would do is limit those who come here to learn about the bodmod industry and community. One of the best ways to learn about a new community is by observing its internal discussion.
On the other hand, I am guessing this thread alone has to be a large chunk of the server’s daily bandwidth. lol
I am very glad to hear you are doing well, Bastien! Does it feel good to have so many BMEers so passionately interested in your health and welfare? 🙂
” this kind information should give to professional ppl only. I thought that it was good idea to share information to all ppl, but it seems that here ppl are too stupid or theyâre not ready for this kind âhardcoreâ? stuff. Iâm happy to share my knowledge, but not with idiots as i hate stupid ppl.” -Samppa
Hmm, so Samppa wants a seperate section of BME for professionals? Okeydoke. But, umm, what about all that rhetoric about not needing society telling us who can or cannot do things based on their level of training, experience and licensure? Maybe “professional” is defined as anyone who is as trained as he is, but not anyone who is less trained? And, I am curious how this section would admit new members. Would everyone who wants to join
send a copy of their business license, health inspections, etc? Unless I misread, Samppa has implied he practices in places where such things are not regulated, so how would he provide this proof?
As for limiting the debate to folks with memberships, well, I don’t see that that would have changed the discussion in the least. There have been some very well known members of the BME community (Erik, Kat, Moddoctor, Shannon) on both sides of the issue, and most with mixed opinions. All a password protected discussion forum would do is limit those who come here to learn about the bodmod industry and community. One of the best ways to learn about a new community is by observing its internal discussion.
On the other hand, I am guessing this thread alone has to be a large chunk of the server’s daily bandwidth. lol
Hello. I’m here from the BME article today, to post on both this above issue and the things that Shannon raised in the article. I’d like to raise another point entirely, leaving modification momentarily behind to make a medical comparison.
Giving birth was not always considered a full-on “medical” procedure, requiring doctors, needles, drugs, and bed rest. For centuries, women *somehow survived* without the careful monitoring that they are now assumed to need. The process of birthing was attended to by skilled–but not certified–trained midwives and doulas. To reiterate: the biological process of popping out a baby was, largely, watched over by non-doctors, and lo, many, many people did not die in childbirth (though some did). Money changed hands for these services. There is a documented history (which I am not familiar enough with to quote exactly here–I point you, for further reading, to “For Her Own Good,” edited by Barbara Eirenriech (sp?)) of birthing–a personal, non-medical procedure–being taken from the hands of midwives and the pregnant women (by the at-that-time-newly-formed and all-male AMA) and being handed over to the medical establishment (again, the AMA), with its degrees and certification (both of which were unavailable to the historic, now disenfranchised, practicioners of birth) and its “we know best, your methods are dangerous” attitude. Today, birth is treated like an ailment, and unless a pregnant person makes the effort, the default procedure will involve her being drugged, among other things, just because the people who preside over birth are degreed, certified, and accepted as the ones who know enough to do the things they have decreed that a pregnancy *requires*, and still, many, many people do not die during childbirth (though some do).
To recap: pregnant women used to go to people who were well versed in birth, but not sanctioned by a governing body. The medical establishment decided that this was dangerous to its authority, and the AMA discredited midwives and began to dictate how births *should* be done (and, thus, to whom the money should go). In this manner, a natural process (one that *could* just happen without intervention) was taken out of the hands of the people who were best trained and best suited to deal with it and placed under control of the establishment, which refused the help and information of the prior practicioners and made up its own protocol.
I’m not pretending that pregnancy is like desiring and getting scar work, so save us all some time and do not respond with that point. But I immediately thought of the birth thing when I read Shannon’s article. I think this is an apt comparison: a procedure in which the subject and the practicioner(s) are both deeply involved; the practicioner(s) is(are) skilled but not necessarily certified/sanctioned by a governing body; and a fight, now, about how the subject *needs* to go to a sanctioned professional because only that professional (not the practicioners, “professional” as they may be) knows what’s best.
The core issue, as Shannon has said and as many people have reiterated and as I firmly believe, is indeed “who has the power over my body.”
Is it the AMA, which may or may not have the skills and information to give me what I want in all circumstances? I’d go to them for an open heart surgery, but I wouldn’t go to them for a piercing or a birth.
Is it my mod practicioner, who can give me what I want but is not papered by my government? I’d go to a tattoo artist for a tattoo, but I’d get the antibiotics to treat an infection in that tattoo from someone authorized to write a scrip for me (NB: never had this problem, just using an example).
Is it my mod community, which can educate me and educate itself, respond to technological changes, and give feedback to those both inside and outside of the community? I’d certainly go to the community for practicioner recommendations, support, and understanding, but I sure wouldn’t let them tell me what scars, ink, and steel (titanium…) to get.
Is it me? Fuck yes it’s me. I am the only person with the authority to decide what my body needs and to whom I will listen when my body needs something I cannot provide. I am in charge of whom I choose to hand my body over to (over to whom I choose to hand my body?).
So to those saying unequivocally that Bastien *needed* a doctor: I would like you to rethink your belief that the AMA (or the medical association of your home country–I will only speak for mine) knows best for the sole reason that it is the AMA. Of course the certifying body certifies itself…
To those saying that Lukas and Sampaa were irresponsible for taking on something that, in your view, is surgery: I would like you to rethink what you consider surgery. What has informed your ideas of where the line of “medical procedure” is? Is this a personal line and if so, is it right for you to impose your lines on others?
Choice choice choice (the concept of free will, not the person who posts under that name…). Use it while you can and take care of yourself in the manner you find most appropriate.
I’ve read about half of the above comments; forgive any reiterations I might have inadvertantly made.
Hello. I’m here from the BME article today, to post on both this above issue and the things that Shannon raised in the article. I’d like to raise another point entirely, leaving modification momentarily behind to make a medical comparison.
Giving birth was not always considered a full-on “medical” procedure, requiring doctors, needles, drugs, and bed rest. For centuries, women *somehow survived* without the careful monitoring that they are now assumed to need. The process of birthing was attended to by skilled–but not certified–trained midwives and doulas. To reiterate: the biological process of popping out a baby was, largely, watched over by non-doctors, and lo, many, many people did not die in childbirth (though some did). Money changed hands for these services. There is a documented history (which I am not familiar enough with to quote exactly here–I point you, for further reading, to “For Her Own Good,” edited by Barbara Eirenriech (sp?)) of birthing–a personal, non-medical procedure–being taken from the hands of midwives and the pregnant women (by the at-that-time-newly-formed and all-male AMA) and being handed over to the medical establishment (again, the AMA), with its degrees and certification (both of which were unavailable to the historic, now disenfranchised, practicioners of birth) and its “we know best, your methods are dangerous” attitude. Today, birth is treated like an ailment, and unless a pregnant person makes the effort, the default procedure will involve her being drugged, among other things, just because the people who preside over birth are degreed, certified, and accepted as the ones who know enough to do the things they have decreed that a pregnancy *requires*, and still, many, many people do not die during childbirth (though some do).
To recap: pregnant women used to go to people who were well versed in birth, but not sanctioned by a governing body. The medical establishment decided that this was dangerous to its authority, and the AMA discredited midwives and began to dictate how births *should* be done (and, thus, to whom the money should go). In this manner, a natural process (one that *could* just happen without intervention) was taken out of the hands of the people who were best trained and best suited to deal with it and placed under control of the establishment, which refused the help and information of the prior practicioners and made up its own protocol.
I’m not pretending that pregnancy is like desiring and getting scar work, so save us all some time and do not respond with that point. But I immediately thought of the birth thing when I read Shannon’s article. I think this is an apt comparison: a procedure in which the subject and the practicioner(s) are both deeply involved; the practicioner(s) is(are) skilled but not necessarily certified/sanctioned by a governing body; and a fight, now, about how the subject *needs* to go to a sanctioned professional because only that professional (not the practicioners, “professional” as they may be) knows what’s best.
The core issue, as Shannon has said and as many people have reiterated and as I firmly believe, is indeed “who has the power over my body.”
Is it the AMA, which may or may not have the skills and information to give me what I want in all circumstances? I’d go to them for an open heart surgery, but I wouldn’t go to them for a piercing or a birth.
Is it my mod practicioner, who can give me what I want but is not papered by my government? I’d go to a tattoo artist for a tattoo, but I’d get the antibiotics to treat an infection in that tattoo from someone authorized to write a scrip for me (NB: never had this problem, just using an example).
Is it my mod community, which can educate me and educate itself, respond to technological changes, and give feedback to those both inside and outside of the community? I’d certainly go to the community for practicioner recommendations, support, and understanding, but I sure wouldn’t let them tell me what scars, ink, and steel (titanium…) to get.
Is it me? Fuck yes it’s me. I am the only person with the authority to decide what my body needs and to whom I will listen when my body needs something I cannot provide. I am in charge of whom I choose to hand my body over to (over to whom I choose to hand my body?).
So to those saying unequivocally that Bastien *needed* a doctor: I would like you to rethink your belief that the AMA (or the medical association of your home country–I will only speak for mine) knows best for the sole reason that it is the AMA. Of course the certifying body certifies itself…
To those saying that Lukas and Sampaa were irresponsible for taking on something that, in your view, is surgery: I would like you to rethink what you consider surgery. What has informed your ideas of where the line of “medical procedure” is? Is this a personal line and if so, is it right for you to impose your lines on others?
Choice choice choice (the concept of free will, not the person who posts under that name…). Use it while you can and take care of yourself in the manner you find most appropriate.
I’ve read about half of the above comments; forgive any reiterations I might have inadvertantly made.
looking at this procedure from a medical point of view, i would wager this problem is likely to recur.
In discussion with plastic surgeon on this particular topic a few months back, he told me that there have been various debates as to the process of scar resection – a wider margin leaves the chance that an even WIDER keloid will regrow, but the point of operating the first place is to ensure removal of the keloid in it’s entirety, so the surgical management is, apparently, still an ongoing discussion.
In case that should happen, the “modifyee” should be prepared to look into the eventuality that he might have to consult and weigh out his options with a competent (read: trustworthy) plastic surgeon who will probably recommend local injection of drugs at the scar site and, again surgery if at all feasible at that point.
Considering the extent of the keloiding, i’m not certain whether radiotherapy (which is considered a last resort – yet also has the potential to offer satisfying results) would even be considered.
It’s an interesting medical conundrum… i apologise for being so analytical though.
good luck to all those involved.
looking at this procedure from a medical point of view, i would wager this problem is likely to recur.
In discussion with plastic surgeon on this particular topic a few months back, he told me that there have been various debates as to the process of scar resection – a wider margin leaves the chance that an even WIDER keloid will regrow, but the point of operating the first place is to ensure removal of the keloid in it’s entirety, so the surgical management is, apparently, still an ongoing discussion.
In case that should happen, the “modifyee” should be prepared to look into the eventuality that he might have to consult and weigh out his options with a competent (read: trustworthy) plastic surgeon who will probably recommend local injection of drugs at the scar site and, again surgery if at all feasible at that point.
Considering the extent of the keloiding, i’m not certain whether radiotherapy (which is considered a last resort – yet also has the potential to offer satisfying results) would even be considered.
It’s an interesting medical conundrum… i apologise for being so analytical though.
good luck to all those involved.
I’m so glad you’re alright, Bastien. Every one of us are wishing you the best, and I’m sure we’re all ecstatic that you’re happy and healthy!!
I’m so glad you’re alright, Bastien. Every one of us are wishing you the best, and I’m sure we’re all ecstatic that you’re happy and healthy!!
Education, education, education!
If your not willing to educate yourself on what you’re doing to yourself then you must resort to the local tattoo shoop…
This blog and this blog only has inspired me.
“Anything that can be done can be taught and this is where we must learn. By sharing our experiences, we as a community, must share are reactions and learn…
I’m glad to hear that your 60 stitches are all right Bastien.
Thank you for sharing your experience with us, no matter how we react to your decision or the two body modification doctors that have created you!
REAL
Education, education, education!
If your not willing to educate yourself on what you’re doing to yourself then you must resort to the local tattoo shoop…
This blog and this blog only has inspired me.
“Anything that can be done can be taught and this is where we must learn. By sharing our experiences, we as a community, must share are reactions and learn…
I’m glad to hear that your 60 stitches are all right Bastien.
Thank you for sharing your experience with us, no matter how we react to your decision or the two body modification doctors that have created you!
REAL
Ouch. That looks fucking gross, but it’s his right to have this done by someone other than a doctor. Doctors don’t know mods very well compared to practitioners themselves.
Ouch. That looks fucking gross, but it’s his right to have this done by someone other than a doctor. Doctors don’t know mods very well compared to practitioners themselves.
procedure looks quite brutul but in full agreement with the statement that it was his choice to seek out help from bod-mod practitioners rather than go to a doctor, and he, as all people should have the right to make the decisions about their own bodies.
procedure looks quite brutul but in full agreement with the statement that it was his choice to seek out help from bod-mod practitioners rather than go to a doctor, and he, as all people should have the right to make the decisions about their own bodies.
congrats! you made it onto trainwrecks.net!
congrats! you made it onto trainwrecks.net!
Shannon, please don’t regulate ModBlog. If anything, people need to be educated about these things. Education is the first step in acceptance, and acceptance (or at least tolerance) is a very good thing.
Shannon, please don’t regulate ModBlog. If anything, people need to be educated about these things. Education is the first step in acceptance, and acceptance (or at least tolerance) is a very good thing.
most people’s reaction are full of hate , ingnorance , intolerance , and stupidity when they see things that they are not able to understand … this kind of reaction coming from people who are involved in bme is really interesting . we thought these people more open minded than “mainstream” people . but they are not . I really think that most of the people are not ready to change and to understand what what we are doing is about . they are still full of judeo christian prejudices and most likely prefer to create new rules instead of changing old ones …
most people’s reaction are full of hate , ingnorance , intolerance , and stupidity when they see things that they are not able to understand … this kind of reaction coming from people who are involved in bme is really interesting . we thought these people more open minded than “mainstream” people . but they are not . I really think that most of the people are not ready to change and to understand what what we are doing is about . they are still full of judeo christian prejudices and most likely prefer to create new rules instead of changing old ones …
I think that if that guy wanted to go to the practitioners, good, but they should not get offended and react in that way to the people who think this procedure is a doctor’s field, c’mon! not everyone is gonna kiss your asses! It seems that you are more intolerant than the people you criticise just because they don’t think that you should be praised for your skills.
I think that if that guy wanted to go to the practitioners, good, but they should not get offended and react in that way to the people who think this procedure is a doctor’s field, c’mon! not everyone is gonna kiss your asses! It seems that you are more intolerant than the people you criticise just because they don’t think that you should be praised for your skills.
Okay I almost died when I seen that poor bastards keloid action. So much in fact I even called my husband over to take a look at what Shannon had posted.
First off it served as a good warning to others, it CAN happen to any of us no matter who is doing your work. I’ve seen some beautiful scarification work and some damn ugly ass ones as well. You can’t win them all.
Most of us live in Canada/US so most people are quick to point out that a doctor/surgeon could have done a better job however taking into consideration their geographic location maybe such services are not readily avaliable. Surgery can take months to book let alone recieve. It’s obvious to me that when something is resticting my way of life I will do whatever it takes within reason to fix it. Scarification is an art form all of it’s own and if your qualified and experienced with it, I would like to think that these two gentleman wouldn’t have offered to take something on this big and risk their reputation.
I hope that in the end this poor guy has a better outcome with the removal than he did with the inital work to start with. Anything has got to be better than what he had when he first walked in there.
No they are not doctors, but they’re removing fucking keloids, not offering breast implants.
Okay I almost died when I seen that poor bastards keloid action. So much in fact I even called my husband over to take a look at what Shannon had posted.
First off it served as a good warning to others, it CAN happen to any of us no matter who is doing your work. I’ve seen some beautiful scarification work and some damn ugly ass ones as well. You can’t win them all.
Most of us live in Canada/US so most people are quick to point out that a doctor/surgeon could have done a better job however taking into consideration their geographic location maybe such services are not readily avaliable. Surgery can take months to book let alone recieve. It’s obvious to me that when something is resticting my way of life I will do whatever it takes within reason to fix it. Scarification is an art form all of it’s own and if your qualified and experienced with it, I would like to think that these two gentleman wouldn’t have offered to take something on this big and risk their reputation.
I hope that in the end this poor guy has a better outcome with the removal than he did with the inital work to start with. Anything has got to be better than what he had when he first walked in there.
No they are not doctors, but they’re removing fucking keloids, not offering breast implants.
^exaggerated. i’ve read every comment in here, and i don’t see most, if any reactions full of hate coming from members of bme.
i see concern, maybe some skepticism.. please don’t judge others how you wish not to be judged. xo.
^exaggerated. i’ve read every comment in here, and i don’t see most, if any reactions full of hate coming from members of bme.
i see concern, maybe some skepticism.. please don’t judge others how you wish not to be judged. xo.
“i’ve read every comment in here” .
did you really ?!
“i’ve read every comment in here” .
did you really ?!
i am reminded of the illinois tongue splitting law. it doesn’t say you can’t have it done. it only says a licensed medical practitioner can do it. bod mod and medicine are two separate and distinct practices. i personally don’t think a bod mod practioner should perform such a procedure from a practical standpoint, but to each their own.
i am reminded of the illinois tongue splitting law. it doesn’t say you can’t have it done. it only says a licensed medical practitioner can do it. bod mod and medicine are two separate and distinct practices. i personally don’t think a bod mod practioner should perform such a procedure from a practical standpoint, but to each their own.
I saw this guy at a party last night.He’s fine and well, happy, feeling much better already.Lukas Zpira and Sampa did a great job!!!
I saw this guy at a party last night.He’s fine and well, happy, feeling much better already.Lukas Zpira and Sampa did a great job!!!
exagerated ?! I read so many stupids comment in so many page and about so many artists … pierre black in some iam peoples pages, howie, steve etc …
the last thing I found ?! this on iam , written by yttrx on is page :
–Anyone considering surgery by Lukas may want to think twice–both times about the–so far–THREE people to whom he’s allegedly given gangrene!
–Sampa is a dirty boy! Sources tell me he was seen a few weeks ago doing a public breast skewering with NO GLOVES! Naughty!
–Rumor has it that Howie was seen at a Swiss mod meet a couple of months ago suspending a FIFTEEN YEAR OLD KID! Maybe it’s legal there. Are tongue splits on 16 year olds legal here? (editor’s note: there are now conflicting stories surrounding the age of the kid, which may indeed have been close to 18, and with parental consent)
exagerated ?! I read so many stupids comment in so many page and about so many artists … pierre black in some iam peoples pages, howie, steve etc …
the last thing I found ?! this on iam , written by yttrx on is page :
–Anyone considering surgery by Lukas may want to think twice–both times about the–so far–THREE people to whom he’s allegedly given gangrene!
–Sampa is a dirty boy! Sources tell me he was seen a few weeks ago doing a public breast skewering with NO GLOVES! Naughty!
–Rumor has it that Howie was seen at a Swiss mod meet a couple of months ago suspending a FIFTEEN YEAR OLD KID! Maybe it’s legal there. Are tongue splits on 16 year olds legal here? (editor’s note: there are now conflicting stories surrounding the age of the kid, which may indeed have been close to 18, and with parental consent)
Lukas: I agree. As one of the people attending the swiss meeting, this rumor additions on that strange f***ing page seems to be nothing more than an addiction to popularity and lowest style quarreling. One of this poor guys who needs 25 entries in his forums to be happy at all. Sounds like the style os a “sun” reporter. There will always be dumb asses be misusing IAM as a public toilet.
Lukas: I agree. As one of the people attending the swiss meeting, this rumor additions on that strange f***ing page seems to be nothing more than an addiction to popularity and lowest style quarreling. One of this poor guys who needs 25 entries in his forums to be happy at all. Sounds like the style os a “sun” reporter. There will always be dumb asses be misusing IAM as a public toilet.
Adittional thought: Misusing his IAM-diary to publish or even create bad rumors without any facts should be a reason to be banned from IAM.
Adittional thought: Misusing his IAM-diary to publish or even create bad rumors without any facts should be a reason to be banned from IAM.
The unfortunate fact is; if unlisenced practicioners continue to to undertake extreme mod procedures or corrective surgeries like this, people are going to die. And their surviving relatives are going to get the practictioners put out of business and sent to jail. Jordan is right, the industry can’t go on like this.
“Consent” and truly INFORMED consent are not necessarily the same thing, you cannot garuntee thyat every single person who undertakes an extreme precedure is truly aware that it may kill them.
I DON’T think every person should be free to do whatever they like to someone else just because they say it’s OK. It would not be OK for a random guy to give me a heart transplant, even if I was aware of the risks.
If doctors are hostile to BM, change that, Practicing doctors minds may be made up, but why can’t a BM practicioner get a medical degree or work to get the laws changed to bring extreme BM under the umbrella of legislation that covers other cosmetic surgeries?
The unfortunate fact is; if unlisenced practicioners continue to to undertake extreme mod procedures or corrective surgeries like this, people are going to die. And their surviving relatives are going to get the practictioners put out of business and sent to jail. Jordan is right, the industry can’t go on like this.
“Consent” and truly INFORMED consent are not necessarily the same thing, you cannot garuntee thyat every single person who undertakes an extreme precedure is truly aware that it may kill them.
I DON’T think every person should be free to do whatever they like to someone else just because they say it’s OK. It would not be OK for a random guy to give me a heart transplant, even if I was aware of the risks.
If doctors are hostile to BM, change that, Practicing doctors minds may be made up, but why can’t a BM practicioner get a medical degree or work to get the laws changed to bring extreme BM under the umbrella of legislation that covers other cosmetic surgeries?
i did read EVERY comment.
if you’re referring to people’s personal pages, that’s different, i have not read their pages.
i did read EVERY comment.
if you’re referring to people’s personal pages, that’s different, i have not read their pages.
K from some of the things said u agree that people dont have full rites of themselves by saying that they shouldnt be trusted to make their own desicions.
tru, some procedures leave people more at risks than others but thats all something the practitioner should inform the people of. if they assume that the person asking for the work then whos to blame for being ignorant? the ignorance of the person wanting it or the practitioner for not informing them.
when it comes to heavy body modifications people have gotten into some serious things, but at the same time theres alot more kids out there putting themselves at risks by DIY projects with dirty tools, and non sanitized/sterile environments.
also doctors have people sign waivers saying that if they were to die while undergoing surgery that the doctors r not to be heald responsible, to me this says that they have a higher power than a BM practitioner would. because they have a degree means its ok for people to die on a table, but anyone else its seen as attempt at murder if not murder, assault, along with some of the other things mentioned by shannon in his latest story, previous to the sexually explicit tattoos
K from some of the things said u agree that people dont have full rites of themselves by saying that they shouldnt be trusted to make their own desicions.
tru, some procedures leave people more at risks than others but thats all something the practitioner should inform the people of. if they assume that the person asking for the work then whos to blame for being ignorant? the ignorance of the person wanting it or the practitioner for not informing them.
when it comes to heavy body modifications people have gotten into some serious things, but at the same time theres alot more kids out there putting themselves at risks by DIY projects with dirty tools, and non sanitized/sterile environments.
also doctors have people sign waivers saying that if they were to die while undergoing surgery that the doctors r not to be heald responsible, to me this says that they have a higher power than a BM practitioner would. because they have a degree means its ok for people to die on a table, but anyone else its seen as attempt at murder if not murder, assault, along with some of the other things mentioned by shannon in his latest story, previous to the sexually explicit tattoos
I respect the right to do whatever everyone wants to their own bodies, but to me, it seems pretty irresponsible to practice surgery, because that’s surgery, call it art, call it whatever you want, it’s still surgery, wearing nothing but some gloves and in that environment. It doesn’t matter if they have 30 years doing that, they don’t have the knowledge a surgeon has. They must learn for more than 10 years, I respect the work of the artists here mentioned, but I don’t think that they know as much as a surgeon, they just cut, chop it off and suture. Of course people die in hospitals, but you can’t seriously say that because people die in hospitals then patients are better off in the hands of practitioners with no formal training. What’s next? shamans? If someone wants to go and have surgery, it’s their right to go and have a carpenter to do it with a chainsaw if they want to, but please, don’t say that people here are more experienced that doctors who have a lot of formal training that comes from centuries, surgery is not something that can be learned imitating, painting is, sculpture is, but when it comes to opening a human being and endangering a life, there should be serious consideration. Just my two cents
I respect the right to do whatever everyone wants to their own bodies, but to me, it seems pretty irresponsible to practice surgery, because that’s surgery, call it art, call it whatever you want, it’s still surgery, wearing nothing but some gloves and in that environment. It doesn’t matter if they have 30 years doing that, they don’t have the knowledge a surgeon has. They must learn for more than 10 years, I respect the work of the artists here mentioned, but I don’t think that they know as much as a surgeon, they just cut, chop it off and suture. Of course people die in hospitals, but you can’t seriously say that because people die in hospitals then patients are better off in the hands of practitioners with no formal training. What’s next? shamans? If someone wants to go and have surgery, it’s their right to go and have a carpenter to do it with a chainsaw if they want to, but please, don’t say that people here are more experienced that doctors who have a lot of formal training that comes from centuries, surgery is not something that can be learned imitating, painting is, sculpture is, but when it comes to opening a human being and endangering a life, there should be serious consideration. Just my two cents
“What is my body worth?”
OK, I must admit, I have not read a large majority of the post on here, but I I am writing this in responce to the majority of responces that I read.
The issue at hand is not whether the person that recieved the procedure was informed. According to what I read, he was a practitioner himself. Would the lot of you be saying the same thing to someone who had a botched breast enlargement. Or a nose job for that matter?
You can go to any licensened plastic surgeon in the world and get a procedure that may or may not go ary. Does that mean that plastic surgery should be completely outlawed?
Any extreme body modification (including the legal kind) carries its own risks. The doctor’s who do these types of legal procedures are no more likely to give quality advice to those who recieve their treatments than unlicenced practioners.
I am a person who has gone through a signifigant heavy body modifications. I have gone from recieving the shittiest surface piercings ever, from a piercer in my little town, to getting my tounge split by one of the top practioners in the country. Just for the record, the pro’s I have dealt with are WAY
The reason I can’t list his name is that he is afraid of prosecution. I guess the point I am really getting at is, how much does the license these so called “professional’s” have.
“What is my body worth?”
OK, I must admit, I have not read a large majority of the post on here, but I I am writing this in responce to the majority of responces that I read.
The issue at hand is not whether the person that recieved the procedure was informed. According to what I read, he was a practitioner himself. Would the lot of you be saying the same thing to someone who had a botched breast enlargement. Or a nose job for that matter?
You can go to any licensened plastic surgeon in the world and get a procedure that may or may not go ary. Does that mean that plastic surgery should be completely outlawed?
Any extreme body modification (including the legal kind) carries its own risks. The doctor’s who do these types of legal procedures are no more likely to give quality advice to those who recieve their treatments than unlicenced practioners.
I am a person who has gone through a signifigant heavy body modifications. I have gone from recieving the shittiest surface piercings ever, from a piercer in my little town, to getting my tounge split by one of the top practioners in the country. Just for the record, the pro’s I have dealt with are WAY
The reason I can’t list his name is that he is afraid of prosecution. I guess the point I am really getting at is, how much does the license these so called “professional’s” have.