Update: First, the person in this procedure healed fine and is very happy. Second, I want to make it clear that while this procedure looks very intense, it’s probably less intense as a procedure than some large skin removal work, transscrotal piercings, implants, tongue splitting, and all the other procedures generally accepted by the body modification community.
Ok, this is a pretty gory entry. I apologize for that. But I think it’s important to emphasize that when you do large scale scarification (or sometimes small scale), sometimes the keloid grows out of control and starts getting very uncomfortable, restricting mobility, and so on. This piece was only about a month old in the photos below (it was done by a “well known body modification artist” who’s gonna stay unnamed because that’s not the point of the entry) and the customer was quite unhappy and wanted it dealt with.
Samppa Von Cyborg and Lukas Zpira got together to help him as much as they could. They felt that all of it was cut too deep, and did their best to excise the tissue, although the centre keloid was not removed (I’m assuming it was adhered right to the cartilage at bottom of the sternum). Starting with some exploratory cuts:
Mostly off and looking very gory:
As you can see, quite a chasm of tissue was removed! Check out the fatty tissue below:
Once stitched up, I can’t imagine how relived and happy the customer must have been. It’s a pretty intense removal, and a lot to go through, but Lukas and Samppa did a nice job restoring him… Hopefully the removal doesn’t have similar keloiding issues (sometimes it’s a problem that snowballs).
Finally, the gross out shot of the removed tissue:
Please take scarification seriously!!!
Comments
1,136 responses to “When scarification goes bad”
pardon . my answers 376 was for lizzardman.
not for you meltbanana … I will talk in my imperfect english in the future …
pardon . my answers 376 was for lizzardman.
not for you meltbanana … I will talk in my imperfect english in the future …
Quoting Lukas from #372:
ok . so everithing is just a business â¦
thats again an american way of seeing things .
sorry if you dont like the way I express my point of view. thats not a âgrandiose rhetoricâ? . it s just french language. but yes I agrea that it s a little bit more ârichâ? than english to express an idea .
I clearly did not say everyhting is just a business – In fact, I clearly stated that body modification was not just a business. I don’t know if this is a translation issue but if not don’t put words in my mouth just so you can try and shore up your point. What I said, and will say again as clearly as I think is possible is that body modification is an industry, it also happens to be an art form – it is an art form which is practiced as an industry by yourself (Lukas) and others – you make your living doing business providing the art as a service to others. To deny the business of body modification flies in the face of your own actions.
As for american points of view – well, I am american so any view I take is by definition an american point of view – anyway, thats not a valid criticism. Just because a point of view is american doesn’t make it wrong any more than a french point of view os wrong for being french – how about making substantial criticisms, how about addressing facts rather than going for snide cultural commentary jabs.
I don’t mind how you express your point of view (though it would be much easier for to make sense of it if posted in english, as french is something I hve not studied in over a decade) My impression is that you were/are denying that there is a body modification industry and/or claiming that body modification is purely an art and therefor free from the regulation, controls, and others limits we place upon practices which are businesses and in making these claims you did not address Jordans points but rather spoke in the manner of an art manifesto ignoring his actual points and claiming he was talking bullshit. This is rude & dismissive but most of all wrong since you have not addressed his point which was quite valid on its face.
As for french being more “rich” than english for expressing points – matter of opinion. My only preference is for clarity and english is far easier for being my native tongue. I am more well acquainted than I would have ever wanted to be with the fact that not all people speak english (not that they should) and the problem of not being able to fully discourse with you in a language of your preference is my own shortcoming but as your “imperfect english” is leaps and bounds ahead of my neglected and derelict french ( I only barely think I got the gist of #376) I am glad to see you have opted to post in english in future
Quoting Lukas from #372:
ok . so everithing is just a business â¦
thats again an american way of seeing things .
sorry if you dont like the way I express my point of view. thats not a âgrandiose rhetoricâ? . it s just french language. but yes I agrea that it s a little bit more ârichâ? than english to express an idea .
I clearly did not say everyhting is just a business – In fact, I clearly stated that body modification was not just a business. I don’t know if this is a translation issue but if not don’t put words in my mouth just so you can try and shore up your point. What I said, and will say again as clearly as I think is possible is that body modification is an industry, it also happens to be an art form – it is an art form which is practiced as an industry by yourself (Lukas) and others – you make your living doing business providing the art as a service to others. To deny the business of body modification flies in the face of your own actions.
As for american points of view – well, I am american so any view I take is by definition an american point of view – anyway, thats not a valid criticism. Just because a point of view is american doesn’t make it wrong any more than a french point of view os wrong for being french – how about making substantial criticisms, how about addressing facts rather than going for snide cultural commentary jabs.
I don’t mind how you express your point of view (though it would be much easier for to make sense of it if posted in english, as french is something I hve not studied in over a decade) My impression is that you were/are denying that there is a body modification industry and/or claiming that body modification is purely an art and therefor free from the regulation, controls, and others limits we place upon practices which are businesses and in making these claims you did not address Jordans points but rather spoke in the manner of an art manifesto ignoring his actual points and claiming he was talking bullshit. This is rude & dismissive but most of all wrong since you have not addressed his point which was quite valid on its face.
As for french being more “rich” than english for expressing points – matter of opinion. My only preference is for clarity and english is far easier for being my native tongue. I am more well acquainted than I would have ever wanted to be with the fact that not all people speak english (not that they should) and the problem of not being able to fully discourse with you in a language of your preference is my own shortcoming but as your “imperfect english” is leaps and bounds ahead of my neglected and derelict french ( I only barely think I got the gist of #376) I am glad to see you have opted to post in english in future
Here is simply something I’d like to point out.
As Samppa wrote in his #251 post. Samppa you wrote basically about how procedures like: Scarification, Implant, etc are Body Modification….And that if we publically REMOVE these things from the website, that it’ll kill Body Modification. As all we’d be showing is Navel piercing after Navel Piercing.
What I’d like to pose is this…What is wrong with navel piercings?
Navel piercings are body modification.
Eyebrow piercings are body modification.
A SIMPLE EAR LOBE PIERCING IS BODY MODIFICATION!
At what point have we as artists, who mostly started out as a Body Piercers, felt that Body Piercing is the “past” and that the future is pushing the envelope and even potentially eventually(if not already) causing death?
I love the more heavier versions of Body Modification. However I strongly believe that we cannot walk away from Navel piercings.
Nowadays so many body piercers feel they need to push an push an push, to reach Samppa and Lukas’ level. Yet so many of them don’t even understand basic concepts of body piercing, let alone how to properly hold a scalpel. Not to mention they only have any anatomy knowledge base on a case by case basis, by actually DOING the work.
And because of everyone rushing to do things bigger, badder and more hardcore’er…The climax is going to soon come and I predict a heavy exodus of the good practioners going “underground” again, to hide themselves from the people putting their names out there in the public eye.
In closing I say you should NOT bash or trash the Body Piercing side of things, compared to the more extreme forms of Modification. Because at least Body Piercing is more accepted and appreciated right now that more heavier forms of Body Modification.
Nor should any Body Modification Practioner have the GULL to even trash talk the Body Piercing industry as that’s VERY hypocritical. As like I said the majority of those practioners, started out piercing.
Know your roots…RESPECT your roots…LOVE YOUR ROOTS!
Now also to the one person who also asked about if other professional’s views of Samppa and Lukas have changed….
Now I am not doing these heavier modifications, yet. However I will say I’ve talked to Samppa privately and I respect his views on Modification.
I’ve also talked to Lukas before and also I will say if it WASN’T for Lukas, it would have taken me longer to find out about Scarification. Just like Samppa I definately respect Lukas’ views on Modification…
Both their views and their abilities. Them along with guys like Steve Haworth, Tom B, as well as the many others have pushed the envelopes for years. I personally believe they are the modern day Jim Wards and Fakir’s,etc. Except for the heavier forms of Body Modification, not just body piercing.
Have my views on them changed? No, Absolutely not! As I clearly know that with this form of the industry… Serious complications can occur even with work that has been done by the “BEST” artist around. It just shows that as much as we THINK we know what we’re doing, in this medium of art, however there’s no previous precedence of how-to or what-to in this…Save for a few shows of: “Trauma Life In The ER” and those types of glorious shows.
Unless the artist has specifically taken some formal medical training.
Here is simply something I’d like to point out.
As Samppa wrote in his #251 post. Samppa you wrote basically about how procedures like: Scarification, Implant, etc are Body Modification….And that if we publically REMOVE these things from the website, that it’ll kill Body Modification. As all we’d be showing is Navel piercing after Navel Piercing.
What I’d like to pose is this…What is wrong with navel piercings?
Navel piercings are body modification.
Eyebrow piercings are body modification.
A SIMPLE EAR LOBE PIERCING IS BODY MODIFICATION!
At what point have we as artists, who mostly started out as a Body Piercers, felt that Body Piercing is the “past” and that the future is pushing the envelope and even potentially eventually(if not already) causing death?
I love the more heavier versions of Body Modification. However I strongly believe that we cannot walk away from Navel piercings.
Nowadays so many body piercers feel they need to push an push an push, to reach Samppa and Lukas’ level. Yet so many of them don’t even understand basic concepts of body piercing, let alone how to properly hold a scalpel. Not to mention they only have any anatomy knowledge base on a case by case basis, by actually DOING the work.
And because of everyone rushing to do things bigger, badder and more hardcore’er…The climax is going to soon come and I predict a heavy exodus of the good practioners going “underground” again, to hide themselves from the people putting their names out there in the public eye.
In closing I say you should NOT bash or trash the Body Piercing side of things, compared to the more extreme forms of Modification. Because at least Body Piercing is more accepted and appreciated right now that more heavier forms of Body Modification.
Nor should any Body Modification Practioner have the GULL to even trash talk the Body Piercing industry as that’s VERY hypocritical. As like I said the majority of those practioners, started out piercing.
Know your roots…RESPECT your roots…LOVE YOUR ROOTS!
Now also to the one person who also asked about if other professional’s views of Samppa and Lukas have changed….
Now I am not doing these heavier modifications, yet. However I will say I’ve talked to Samppa privately and I respect his views on Modification.
I’ve also talked to Lukas before and also I will say if it WASN’T for Lukas, it would have taken me longer to find out about Scarification. Just like Samppa I definately respect Lukas’ views on Modification…
Both their views and their abilities. Them along with guys like Steve Haworth, Tom B, as well as the many others have pushed the envelopes for years. I personally believe they are the modern day Jim Wards and Fakir’s,etc. Except for the heavier forms of Body Modification, not just body piercing.
Have my views on them changed? No, Absolutely not! As I clearly know that with this form of the industry… Serious complications can occur even with work that has been done by the “BEST” artist around. It just shows that as much as we THINK we know what we’re doing, in this medium of art, however there’s no previous precedence of how-to or what-to in this…Save for a few shows of: “Trauma Life In The ER” and those types of glorious shows.
Unless the artist has specifically taken some formal medical training.
per navel piercings:
https://www.bmezine.com/news/lizardman/20030708.html
per navel piercings:
https://www.bmezine.com/news/lizardman/20030708.html
malicat: ota muhun yhteytta privaatisti, esim iam tai email, niin jutellaan tosta jutusta lisaa.
And why ppl now want that me and lukas start writing in english? just they told how bad english we writing, so better if we writing language what we can well. u should to learning finnish and french then…
warren: obviously u lost the point with my example about navel piercing…there’s nothing wrong with navel piercing. but it’s most common piercing ever, so that’s why u used it as example. do u think that if on bme would be pics of navel piercing only, or even any normal piercing, legal body modification. no any extreme at all, that it would be so interesting and popular anymore? unforunately bme don’t run only with pics of usual piercings
malicat: ota muhun yhteytta privaatisti, esim iam tai email, niin jutellaan tosta jutusta lisaa.
And why ppl now want that me and lukas start writing in english? just they told how bad english we writing, so better if we writing language what we can well. u should to learning finnish and french then…
warren: obviously u lost the point with my example about navel piercing…there’s nothing wrong with navel piercing. but it’s most common piercing ever, so that’s why u used it as example. do u think that if on bme would be pics of navel piercing only, or even any normal piercing, legal body modification. no any extreme at all, that it would be so interesting and popular anymore? unforunately bme don’t run only with pics of usual piercings
Ok, and I am really late on this. I’ve been working on getting the literature together for a really choice rant on the state of medical education and medical knowledge of body modification. That said, I do think that extreme mods should be in the hands of the most experience surgical practitioners…surgeons.
That said, for the most part surgeons are mod hostile. I don’t think it’s even a liability thing, it’s a bias thing. For reasons that I can’t explain gravity defying space boobs are fine but implant horns are not. “Permanent cosmetics” are fine but tattoos of anything else aren’t. It’s BS really but the bias in my profession is around some misbegotten idea of societal norms.
There are those of us out there who will work with people to try get them what they want. I do piercing routinely in my practice and a few other things too. We don’t talk about it, people find us. I’d love to be in a position to advertise modification services but there are significant business reasons why not to.
From a safety standpoint, there are plenty of reasons not to have the garden variety mod artist doing scar revisions and ear pinning and other surgical stuff. There’s generally less surgical experience than a surgeon, there’s generally less knowledge of anatomy and frankly there’s a legal hurdle of doing things that fall within the realm of medical practice.
I do think people should be allowed to do what they want with their bodies but for the medicine practice side of things, the reason that I had to go to school for ages and get the license and stay trained year-after-year is basically a stamp of quality assurance. No such thing exists on the body mod side, at least not yet so there’s nothing but portfolios to make the case. I can tell you for certain that a portfolio isn’t good enough, photoshop does wonders.
So I’m mostly hemming and hawing but seriously there’s a line here that my profession needs to meet the mod community at so that everybody can get what they want and it can be done right, safely and esthetically.
Ok, and I am really late on this. I’ve been working on getting the literature together for a really choice rant on the state of medical education and medical knowledge of body modification. That said, I do think that extreme mods should be in the hands of the most experience surgical practitioners…surgeons.
That said, for the most part surgeons are mod hostile. I don’t think it’s even a liability thing, it’s a bias thing. For reasons that I can’t explain gravity defying space boobs are fine but implant horns are not. “Permanent cosmetics” are fine but tattoos of anything else aren’t. It’s BS really but the bias in my profession is around some misbegotten idea of societal norms.
There are those of us out there who will work with people to try get them what they want. I do piercing routinely in my practice and a few other things too. We don’t talk about it, people find us. I’d love to be in a position to advertise modification services but there are significant business reasons why not to.
From a safety standpoint, there are plenty of reasons not to have the garden variety mod artist doing scar revisions and ear pinning and other surgical stuff. There’s generally less surgical experience than a surgeon, there’s generally less knowledge of anatomy and frankly there’s a legal hurdle of doing things that fall within the realm of medical practice.
I do think people should be allowed to do what they want with their bodies but for the medicine practice side of things, the reason that I had to go to school for ages and get the license and stay trained year-after-year is basically a stamp of quality assurance. No such thing exists on the body mod side, at least not yet so there’s nothing but portfolios to make the case. I can tell you for certain that a portfolio isn’t good enough, photoshop does wonders.
So I’m mostly hemming and hawing but seriously there’s a line here that my profession needs to meet the mod community at so that everybody can get what they want and it can be done right, safely and esthetically.
ok . stop “la joute verbale” .
I never say that bodmod should be “free from the regulation, controls, and others limits” I just say that it s complitly pointless … witch regulation and where ?! I already says many things about this issue . but again , it s pointless . you are in us , Im in based in france but work everywhere in the world , samppa is from finland but work in england , some people do mods in south america . is absolutly no way to create a worldwide regulation , and wen I read people says that we are dangerous because we cross the line thats also wrong … witch line . us line , maybe , but we did the procedure in one place where it s was aparently legal to perform it . so again , witch line . the line betwen the black and the white in some binary minded people maybe .
do your regulation if you want , but again and again thats pointless . if I want to cary a gun , I will go in texas, if I want to see naked girls streap tease I will go to florida, if I want to get bodmods I will go where it s possible to get it . and our customer will do the same . period .
ok . stop “la joute verbale” .
I never say that bodmod should be “free from the regulation, controls, and others limits” I just say that it s complitly pointless … witch regulation and where ?! I already says many things about this issue . but again , it s pointless . you are in us , Im in based in france but work everywhere in the world , samppa is from finland but work in england , some people do mods in south america . is absolutly no way to create a worldwide regulation , and wen I read people says that we are dangerous because we cross the line thats also wrong … witch line . us line , maybe , but we did the procedure in one place where it s was aparently legal to perform it . so again , witch line . the line betwen the black and the white in some binary minded people maybe .
do your regulation if you want , but again and again thats pointless . if I want to cary a gun , I will go in texas, if I want to see naked girls streap tease I will go to florida, if I want to get bodmods I will go where it s possible to get it . and our customer will do the same . period .
Samppa: I used navel piercings as an example yes.
But I will expand further and say that many people I have come into my shop often bring in photo’s or say: “I saw this piercing on BMEZINE.com(or they say the internet and I find out it’s BMEZINE.com)”
Yes The Extreme and Hard portions of BME generate A LOT of business. But the sheer amount of images sent to BME of standard piercings, proves that MANY people are looking at the basic piercing/tattoo side of BME as well.
To say BME would simply shrivel up an DIE if it was to remove the BME Extreme or Hard sections, I view as a misconception. The “regular” section of BME is just as important as the Extreme and Hard sections. BME I personally think would not function without all three working as a overall unit.
Personally I’m not saying we SHOULD remove them, as it clearly shows the good and the bads of these modifications, just like there’s good and bad on the piercing/tattoo side of things.
Do I think these photo’s should be posted on BME…If You, Lukas and Bastien approved of the photo’s being put up, then sure they DO belong on here.
But personally I feel that as much as I’d want to know who was doing this work, I personally already know that even problems can occur with the best artists out there. So I don’t think names should be given, in terms of heavy surgical mod work. For the safety of both the artists and the clients.
More so what I think should be focused on is that as much as artists will say they have experience in this field. Unless they’ve spent the YEARS in school studying medicine, they have no formal experience.
All the artists do is go: “well this SHOULD happen this way”…But what happens when it just simply doesn’t go the way the artist thought it was going to go?
I’ve even heard doctors say that as much as they know the body, we as humans really DON’T know the body. Because things happen differently from person to person.
One person dies of cancer, while the other is able to battle it and survive.
One’s able to go through surgery and come out fine. While the other obtains a very horrible infection which results in loss of limbs or potentially life.
Confidence is key…But an artist who is over confident and thinking they are king shit and can do ANYTHING and it will all heal perfectly, is a problem waiting to occur.
Now this statement isn’t directed at you, Samppa, or Lukas. As I both believe you are excellent artists in your craft.
However as I stated before far too many piercers and others are thinking they can mimic the same thing and get the same results….Which is a problem.
They see Lukas travelling all over the world and doing mods, as well as others who travel and do guest spots from time to time…and they want to live the “rockstar” lifestyle of being a “BodMod Practioner”
I just personally believe in the heavy forms of work, caution as well as proper consultations are in order.
You guys discussed this with the client and did a EXCELLENT job dealing with the issue…But ask yourself, does EVERYONE do this?
Do they offer to do the procedure and let the client stay with them as long as they need to, for observation?
How many “artists” do the work and just send the client on their way? I’ve known of many clients who have gotten work done and as soon as they were done, after a few minutes of chit-chat, they left.
I think if practioners are going to do these types of mods they are going to have to assume total and complete responsibility for the client…By which I mean in regards to bedside manner as well as keeping them for observation.
As for Lizardman: You hit the nail on the head with the article. 🙂
Samppa: I used navel piercings as an example yes.
But I will expand further and say that many people I have come into my shop often bring in photo’s or say: “I saw this piercing on BMEZINE.com(or they say the internet and I find out it’s BMEZINE.com)”
Yes The Extreme and Hard portions of BME generate A LOT of business. But the sheer amount of images sent to BME of standard piercings, proves that MANY people are looking at the basic piercing/tattoo side of BME as well.
To say BME would simply shrivel up an DIE if it was to remove the BME Extreme or Hard sections, I view as a misconception. The “regular” section of BME is just as important as the Extreme and Hard sections. BME I personally think would not function without all three working as a overall unit.
Personally I’m not saying we SHOULD remove them, as it clearly shows the good and the bads of these modifications, just like there’s good and bad on the piercing/tattoo side of things.
Do I think these photo’s should be posted on BME…If You, Lukas and Bastien approved of the photo’s being put up, then sure they DO belong on here.
But personally I feel that as much as I’d want to know who was doing this work, I personally already know that even problems can occur with the best artists out there. So I don’t think names should be given, in terms of heavy surgical mod work. For the safety of both the artists and the clients.
More so what I think should be focused on is that as much as artists will say they have experience in this field. Unless they’ve spent the YEARS in school studying medicine, they have no formal experience.
All the artists do is go: “well this SHOULD happen this way”…But what happens when it just simply doesn’t go the way the artist thought it was going to go?
I’ve even heard doctors say that as much as they know the body, we as humans really DON’T know the body. Because things happen differently from person to person.
One person dies of cancer, while the other is able to battle it and survive.
One’s able to go through surgery and come out fine. While the other obtains a very horrible infection which results in loss of limbs or potentially life.
Confidence is key…But an artist who is over confident and thinking they are king shit and can do ANYTHING and it will all heal perfectly, is a problem waiting to occur.
Now this statement isn’t directed at you, Samppa, or Lukas. As I both believe you are excellent artists in your craft.
However as I stated before far too many piercers and others are thinking they can mimic the same thing and get the same results….Which is a problem.
They see Lukas travelling all over the world and doing mods, as well as others who travel and do guest spots from time to time…and they want to live the “rockstar” lifestyle of being a “BodMod Practioner”
I just personally believe in the heavy forms of work, caution as well as proper consultations are in order.
You guys discussed this with the client and did a EXCELLENT job dealing with the issue…But ask yourself, does EVERYONE do this?
Do they offer to do the procedure and let the client stay with them as long as they need to, for observation?
How many “artists” do the work and just send the client on their way? I’ve known of many clients who have gotten work done and as soon as they were done, after a few minutes of chit-chat, they left.
I think if practioners are going to do these types of mods they are going to have to assume total and complete responsibility for the client…By which I mean in regards to bedside manner as well as keeping them for observation.
As for Lizardman: You hit the nail on the head with the article. 🙂
the sutures on bastien have now been removed . and belive it or not he s steal alive, in a perfect shape and didnt get any crazy infection caused by our crazy stupid and wrong procedure … he told me that the skars are looking really good . he s going to send some pictures to shannon in a few days … I guess he deserve a lifetime membership on iam for that 😉 … anyway if some people was right , he may no survive long enouth to enjoy it !
the sutures on bastien have now been removed . and belive it or not he s steal alive, in a perfect shape and didnt get any crazy infection caused by our crazy stupid and wrong procedure … he told me that the skars are looking really good . he s going to send some pictures to shannon in a few days … I guess he deserve a lifetime membership on iam for that 😉 … anyway if some people was right , he may no survive long enouth to enjoy it !
I am very happy to read, Bastien is doing well. The way his body healed the scarification was terrible, and I would even say dangerous (tumorlike). Best is to remove the shit, and this was PROPERLY done.
What was it? A dangerous surdical action, or nothing more than also a little bit deeper skin removal, things done often by experienced professionals?
I would vote for the second possibility – and thus it was done by the perfectly right person.
Yes it would be nice to have an official medical education for bodymod professionals, some kind of 1 or 2 years college particularly for the needed abilities. Yes it would be nice iof there would be an official kind of job “body modifier”, with an education and final examination, as in use for so many other jobs. So complain at the level of politics, they are ignoring and hoping that in the legal greyzone the trend will vanish again.
With or wothout examination, Lukas is the right one to do such specific mods, likely with more knowledge about scars than doctors have.
Jeah and at the very beginning of this diskussion. The one ywho would lika a PhD for medical treatments – grandious idea. Please let me watch (and take on movie) when a PhD in ancient greek history will do the process on you *muahahahaaaaaa*, I really like this kind of people with big mouth but without brain.
PS.: *Wondering where Bastiens IAM site went to*…
I am very happy to read, Bastien is doing well. The way his body healed the scarification was terrible, and I would even say dangerous (tumorlike). Best is to remove the shit, and this was PROPERLY done.
What was it? A dangerous surdical action, or nothing more than also a little bit deeper skin removal, things done often by experienced professionals?
I would vote for the second possibility – and thus it was done by the perfectly right person.
Yes it would be nice to have an official medical education for bodymod professionals, some kind of 1 or 2 years college particularly for the needed abilities. Yes it would be nice iof there would be an official kind of job “body modifier”, with an education and final examination, as in use for so many other jobs. So complain at the level of politics, they are ignoring and hoping that in the legal greyzone the trend will vanish again.
With or wothout examination, Lukas is the right one to do such specific mods, likely with more knowledge about scars than doctors have.
Jeah and at the very beginning of this diskussion. The one ywho would lika a PhD for medical treatments – grandious idea. Please let me watch (and take on movie) when a PhD in ancient greek history will do the process on you *muahahahaaaaaa*, I really like this kind of people with big mouth but without brain.
PS.: *Wondering where Bastiens IAM site went to*…
I have to agree with Stormchaser, in that Lukas and Samppa are the better people to do these types of procedures. Granted, it might be safer sometimes to go to trained doctors, but why go to a doctor of medicine when what you’re looking for is art?
We go to the artists because they know what we want, and they know their trade. We’re all here for the same reason, to protect our rights to have these procedures done and to be able to express ourselves through our bodies in whatever way we see fit. This is our choice, and choosing artistic modifications over medical procedures is our right. Without people like Lukas, The Lizardman, and Sampaa where the hell would we be?
And in response to #379, yes, it’s important to respect our roots and remember where we started, and I agree, there’s nothing wrong with navel piercings or other modifications that don’t require much time as a procedure like scarification, but there’s so much more out there in our world. There’s an endless spectrum that we can follow that has not only navel piercings, but also surface piercings, scar work, subincisions, full body tattoos, transdermal/subdermal implants. If you restrict us on those things, we’ll lose what makes us unique. And all of us will end up looking the same just like before we became modified.
Bottom line, all of this is the same thing, and we’re all in this together. Like it or not, we’re a make-shift family, and we need to support each other even if one of us doesn’t agree with what the other is doing.
I have to agree with Stormchaser, in that Lukas and Samppa are the better people to do these types of procedures. Granted, it might be safer sometimes to go to trained doctors, but why go to a doctor of medicine when what you’re looking for is art?
We go to the artists because they know what we want, and they know their trade. We’re all here for the same reason, to protect our rights to have these procedures done and to be able to express ourselves through our bodies in whatever way we see fit. This is our choice, and choosing artistic modifications over medical procedures is our right. Without people like Lukas, The Lizardman, and Sampaa where the hell would we be?
And in response to #379, yes, it’s important to respect our roots and remember where we started, and I agree, there’s nothing wrong with navel piercings or other modifications that don’t require much time as a procedure like scarification, but there’s so much more out there in our world. There’s an endless spectrum that we can follow that has not only navel piercings, but also surface piercings, scar work, subincisions, full body tattoos, transdermal/subdermal implants. If you restrict us on those things, we’ll lose what makes us unique. And all of us will end up looking the same just like before we became modified.
Bottom line, all of this is the same thing, and we’re all in this together. Like it or not, we’re a make-shift family, and we need to support each other even if one of us doesn’t agree with what the other is doing.
In the words of Mumia Abu Jamal…
“People can talk about rights ’til the cows come home, but when people try to EXERCISE those rights and they’re not allowed we find that those ‘rights’ were not rights, after all. They’re rhetoric, platitude…put out there by the government that have people THINK that they are free.”
I couldn’t have said it any better…and for those of you unfamiliar with who Mumia Abu Jamal is, he’s a deathrow inmate with a pretty clear case of wrongful conviction. If anyone is interested in his story there’s many websites where people are trying to fight for this man’s right to a fair trial…http://www.myspace.com/nojustice_nopeace has a list of them. Thank you for anyone who checks it out.
In the words of Mumia Abu Jamal…
“People can talk about rights ’til the cows come home, but when people try to EXERCISE those rights and they’re not allowed we find that those ‘rights’ were not rights, after all. They’re rhetoric, platitude…put out there by the government that have people THINK that they are free.”
I couldn’t have said it any better…and for those of you unfamiliar with who Mumia Abu Jamal is, he’s a deathrow inmate with a pretty clear case of wrongful conviction. If anyone is interested in his story there’s many websites where people are trying to fight for this man’s right to a fair trial…http://www.myspace.com/nojustice_nopeace has a list of them. Thank you for anyone who checks it out.
Great quote, very appropriate.
Great quote, very appropriate.
It definitely is appropriate, and I don’t think anyone could have said it better than that.
It definitely is appropriate, and I don’t think anyone could have said it better than that.
Jackrabbit: “we’ll lose what makes us unique.”
What makes you feel you are not already unique, that you feel you want to springboard by doing such works as you described to BE UNIQUE.
“I don’t want to be unique. I just want to be me”
If that means getting a navel piercing, rock on. If it means getting a subincision, sweet!
Personally when someone “strives” to be unique, to me it shows they are just trying to be different/better than anyone else.
This uniqueness pushes people to do things bigger, badder, harder,etc because sadly so many people now in the “community/scene” feel like it’s some race/competition.
I do what I do to my body, much like how Shannon has said in the past…He in his head felt a NEED to do this…Not to be unique…Not to be different…Not to even be apart of a scene…He simply did it, to be himself. Shannon, myself, and MANY MANY others feel this way…perhaps even you too?
But to say you lose your uniqueness is silly. We’re all special. We’re all unique…yet we’re all so very much the same….This is what makes humans, humans.
Also I think the point was mistaken, since you perhaps are not involved in the business. I was clearly pointing out that many artists who offer the more extreme services, started out as body piercers.
Many of them nowadays, I personally feel, view Body Piercing as a lesser artform. That the only TRUE way to produce art is to carve someone up, implant them, whatever.
To which I clearly say don’t be hypocritical…You started out as a piercer, never turn your back on what brought you to the game.
If I ever do decide that I want to delve into the artform that has been described…I personally know I will never turn down a simple Navel, Nostril, Lip, any other “basic” piercing.
And I’m not talking “Ok we’ll do it…But it has to be a large gauge….and I HAVE to use a scalpel…”
I love what I do and I will NEVER turn my back on it…Why is it so few piercers nowadays put as much love into their craft? As every apprentice now doesn’t want to learn basics…They want to jump right into heavy work….Ask many piercing apprentices what their future goals are…They all instantly say: “I want to do scarification! Implants,etc!”
Where are the apprentices who’s goals are: “to be the BEST piercer and provide the BEST work for my clients!”
Also and finally to consider what was done in the above photo’s as being art is a crock of shit and way off the reality deep end.
What Lukas and Samppa did for this gentleman is called: RECONSTRUCTIVE SURGERY!
Lets just stop placing heavy duty medical procedures behind theIt’s Art” curtain ok?
This man had a SERIOUS medical problem, Lukas and Samppa lifted this problem away. Case closed, that’s it. There is NO art in extracting massive keloids from the body.
I just hope that based on this experience, his skin type,etc…That the keloids do not form again…Bigger and Badder than before….But this issue is simply how the body works, it has nothing to do with Samppa and Lukas’ work or abilities.
Jackrabbit: “we’ll lose what makes us unique.”
What makes you feel you are not already unique, that you feel you want to springboard by doing such works as you described to BE UNIQUE.
“I don’t want to be unique. I just want to be me”
If that means getting a navel piercing, rock on. If it means getting a subincision, sweet!
Personally when someone “strives” to be unique, to me it shows they are just trying to be different/better than anyone else.
This uniqueness pushes people to do things bigger, badder, harder,etc because sadly so many people now in the “community/scene” feel like it’s some race/competition.
I do what I do to my body, much like how Shannon has said in the past…He in his head felt a NEED to do this…Not to be unique…Not to be different…Not to even be apart of a scene…He simply did it, to be himself. Shannon, myself, and MANY MANY others feel this way…perhaps even you too?
But to say you lose your uniqueness is silly. We’re all special. We’re all unique…yet we’re all so very much the same….This is what makes humans, humans.
Also I think the point was mistaken, since you perhaps are not involved in the business. I was clearly pointing out that many artists who offer the more extreme services, started out as body piercers.
Many of them nowadays, I personally feel, view Body Piercing as a lesser artform. That the only TRUE way to produce art is to carve someone up, implant them, whatever.
To which I clearly say don’t be hypocritical…You started out as a piercer, never turn your back on what brought you to the game.
If I ever do decide that I want to delve into the artform that has been described…I personally know I will never turn down a simple Navel, Nostril, Lip, any other “basic” piercing.
And I’m not talking “Ok we’ll do it…But it has to be a large gauge….and I HAVE to use a scalpel…”
I love what I do and I will NEVER turn my back on it…Why is it so few piercers nowadays put as much love into their craft? As every apprentice now doesn’t want to learn basics…They want to jump right into heavy work….Ask many piercing apprentices what their future goals are…They all instantly say: “I want to do scarification! Implants,etc!”
Where are the apprentices who’s goals are: “to be the BEST piercer and provide the BEST work for my clients!”
Also and finally to consider what was done in the above photo’s as being art is a crock of shit and way off the reality deep end.
What Lukas and Samppa did for this gentleman is called: RECONSTRUCTIVE SURGERY!
Lets just stop placing heavy duty medical procedures behind theIt’s Art” curtain ok?
This man had a SERIOUS medical problem, Lukas and Samppa lifted this problem away. Case closed, that’s it. There is NO art in extracting massive keloids from the body.
I just hope that based on this experience, his skin type,etc…That the keloids do not form again…Bigger and Badder than before….But this issue is simply how the body works, it has nothing to do with Samppa and Lukas’ work or abilities.
Ah, I mistook what you said. And you’re right, the way we already are is what makes us unique, and I in no way meant to imply that that’s the only reason we do this. If it came off that way, my apologies. Also, I didn’t mean the reconstruction was art in itself, that was a necessity because something went horribly wrong while healing. But you’re right, I actually misread what you said earlier, and I agree that every artist or professional needs to remember where they started and not dismiss anything because it isn’t big and involved. Every modification is important and special in it’s own right and people do need to remember that. Sometimes, I forget too and need to be reminded.
And I’m right with you in hoping to hell those keloids don’t reform. Apparently things seem to be going well so far, but one can only hope it stays that way.
Ah, I mistook what you said. And you’re right, the way we already are is what makes us unique, and I in no way meant to imply that that’s the only reason we do this. If it came off that way, my apologies. Also, I didn’t mean the reconstruction was art in itself, that was a necessity because something went horribly wrong while healing. But you’re right, I actually misread what you said earlier, and I agree that every artist or professional needs to remember where they started and not dismiss anything because it isn’t big and involved. Every modification is important and special in it’s own right and people do need to remember that. Sometimes, I forget too and need to be reminded.
And I’m right with you in hoping to hell those keloids don’t reform. Apparently things seem to be going well so far, but one can only hope it stays that way.
I’ve had a couple minor surgeries performed by a nurse practitioner and never had a doctor give me stitches always a nurse for that and if you ever need an IV put in get an EMT to do it they are the best (they train on doing it in the back of a moving vehicle imagine how good they are when you’re just sitting still). This is not a major operation, it doesn’t require in depth knowledge of anatomy or diseases to perform just experience, proper sterilization, a steady hand, and good knowledge of sutures, that’s all. They did a wonderful job going from the photos. I’m all for going to a doctor when it’s neccesary and if the keloids reform then by all means he should consult a doctor since there may be some underlying issue that’s causing him to form them to that extreme that a doctos may have a solution for.
I’ve had a couple minor surgeries performed by a nurse practitioner and never had a doctor give me stitches always a nurse for that and if you ever need an IV put in get an EMT to do it they are the best (they train on doing it in the back of a moving vehicle imagine how good they are when you’re just sitting still). This is not a major operation, it doesn’t require in depth knowledge of anatomy or diseases to perform just experience, proper sterilization, a steady hand, and good knowledge of sutures, that’s all. They did a wonderful job going from the photos. I’m all for going to a doctor when it’s neccesary and if the keloids reform then by all means he should consult a doctor since there may be some underlying issue that’s causing him to form them to that extreme that a doctos may have a solution for.
Ooops, I hit submit too soon. I’d like to add that I’d love to continue seeing this sort of thing in the future. Body mods don’t work out perfectly all the time and people should get to see all their options for repairing the damage. Not everyone has to like or approve of every method out there but they should be explored so people have a full view of what possibly can wrong and all the ways to deal with it. That way should it happen to any of us who frequent this blog we don’t overlook something that may work for us and also rule out some things that may not.
Ooops, I hit submit too soon. I’d like to add that I’d love to continue seeing this sort of thing in the future. Body mods don’t work out perfectly all the time and people should get to see all their options for repairing the damage. Not everyone has to like or approve of every method out there but they should be explored so people have a full view of what possibly can wrong and all the ways to deal with it. That way should it happen to any of us who frequent this blog we don’t overlook something that may work for us and also rule out some things that may not.
Considering I spent an hour of my life reading through this junk, I’m going to give my opinion. For those of you saying “Go to doctors when you can use the proper medical channels” do any of you have any IDEA how many babies are delivered by nurses in America alone? I’ve delivered 12 myself, and to some very shocked mothers who were expecting the doctor to do it. The doctor just came in at last minute to do the Apgar scores and to make sure I was suturing the episiotomy properly. This may seem like a way off base comparison, but in my mind it makes a valid point. Just because you “think” you’re paying for one thing doesn’t necissarily mean that’s what you’re going to get. I’ve put pressure on a friend’s nearly sliced in half leg to stop bleeding, in the middle of the woods on a fishing trip, just to save his life. Highly unsterile? Of course. Did I know better? Of course. Did I have any other options? Absolutely not, other then watch him bleed to death before Air Evac came and got him. After spending years surfing this site, I have seen procedures I would dub more horrifying than this one. A subincision comes to mind, or a leg amputation. HIGHLY more dangerous, HIGHLY more infectious, and much MUCH higher risks of MI, bleed outs, you name it. But they didn’t recieve half as much flak as this skin removal does. And for those of you insisting on artists being more regulated, fine. Petition your governments to start sterile technique certification courses. If someone wants to do skin removals and the like professionally, have them apprentice under a surgeon for a while. Subincisions? Ok then, urologists. Vaginal motification? Gynecologists. You see where I’m going with this, and I’m sure you’ll also agree that the ideals of the situations are far off reach. I’ll agree, basic anatomy and physiology would be wonderful, even basic life support training. But rather then a nursing degree, how about a Surgical Technician requirement? And even these don’t garantee anything. For example, I busted my ass in Pharmacology to get a license to push medication, but my state is now going to start implementing CNA’s to do drug passes so us nurses will be free’d up to do more body audits and the like. My opinion is the body audits don’t mean shit if a patient is in Anaphylactic shock, or dead, because some untrained nurse’s AIDE gave them the wrong dose. This still doesn’t stop it from being a very real situation I’m going to end up dealing with. I know I’m kind of jumping around the board here, but I’m too tired and pissed off to give a damn. That center keloid is OBVIOUSLY very near (if not directly on) the Xyphoid Process. My complete outlook on this is it remains up to the individual to chose who does what to their bodies. Having a stuffy attitude about it won’t make it any different. I’m sure Bastian knew samppa and zpira’s abilities, and didn’t go into this lightly. Everything I have ever heard about both of those artists has never been anything other then praise. Like it’s been stated before, this is supposed to be a very open minded community, when the hell did that go down the tubes? I think a subincision, amputation, or a transscrotal is insane, but not because I think the people who do it are wrong or nuts, but because it’s beyond the reach of MY OWN MIND to incorporate that into my physical abilities. So would I treat someone with such a modification like shit? Fuck no, because what they have done MAKES THEM FEEL HAPPY, FULFILLED, AND SATISFIED with themselves. We constantly jump on our mighty high horses, bemoaning the world today with it’s inability to accept our piercings or tattoos, but where is the acceptance here? I have yet to see it in the majority of the posts that have been made. Everyone is so quick to jump on their moral high horses that they can’t see the real point, that Bastian did something that made him spiritually and physically BETTER!
Considering I spent an hour of my life reading through this junk, I’m going to give my opinion. For those of you saying “Go to doctors when you can use the proper medical channels” do any of you have any IDEA how many babies are delivered by nurses in America alone? I’ve delivered 12 myself, and to some very shocked mothers who were expecting the doctor to do it. The doctor just came in at last minute to do the Apgar scores and to make sure I was suturing the episiotomy properly. This may seem like a way off base comparison, but in my mind it makes a valid point. Just because you “think” you’re paying for one thing doesn’t necissarily mean that’s what you’re going to get. I’ve put pressure on a friend’s nearly sliced in half leg to stop bleeding, in the middle of the woods on a fishing trip, just to save his life. Highly unsterile? Of course. Did I know better? Of course. Did I have any other options? Absolutely not, other then watch him bleed to death before Air Evac came and got him. After spending years surfing this site, I have seen procedures I would dub more horrifying than this one. A subincision comes to mind, or a leg amputation. HIGHLY more dangerous, HIGHLY more infectious, and much MUCH higher risks of MI, bleed outs, you name it. But they didn’t recieve half as much flak as this skin removal does. And for those of you insisting on artists being more regulated, fine. Petition your governments to start sterile technique certification courses. If someone wants to do skin removals and the like professionally, have them apprentice under a surgeon for a while. Subincisions? Ok then, urologists. Vaginal motification? Gynecologists. You see where I’m going with this, and I’m sure you’ll also agree that the ideals of the situations are far off reach. I’ll agree, basic anatomy and physiology would be wonderful, even basic life support training. But rather then a nursing degree, how about a Surgical Technician requirement? And even these don’t garantee anything. For example, I busted my ass in Pharmacology to get a license to push medication, but my state is now going to start implementing CNA’s to do drug passes so us nurses will be free’d up to do more body audits and the like. My opinion is the body audits don’t mean shit if a patient is in Anaphylactic shock, or dead, because some untrained nurse’s AIDE gave them the wrong dose. This still doesn’t stop it from being a very real situation I’m going to end up dealing with. I know I’m kind of jumping around the board here, but I’m too tired and pissed off to give a damn. That center keloid is OBVIOUSLY very near (if not directly on) the Xyphoid Process. My complete outlook on this is it remains up to the individual to chose who does what to their bodies. Having a stuffy attitude about it won’t make it any different. I’m sure Bastian knew samppa and zpira’s abilities, and didn’t go into this lightly. Everything I have ever heard about both of those artists has never been anything other then praise. Like it’s been stated before, this is supposed to be a very open minded community, when the hell did that go down the tubes? I think a subincision, amputation, or a transscrotal is insane, but not because I think the people who do it are wrong or nuts, but because it’s beyond the reach of MY OWN MIND to incorporate that into my physical abilities. So would I treat someone with such a modification like shit? Fuck no, because what they have done MAKES THEM FEEL HAPPY, FULFILLED, AND SATISFIED with themselves. We constantly jump on our mighty high horses, bemoaning the world today with it’s inability to accept our piercings or tattoos, but where is the acceptance here? I have yet to see it in the majority of the posts that have been made. Everyone is so quick to jump on their moral high horses that they can’t see the real point, that Bastian did something that made him spiritually and physically BETTER!
Im impressed by the work done on the guy’s chest.
I been thinking about finding a body mod artist to do my chest revision to remove a fat skin tag and have some fat scalped out on my side. I thought I have to go to regular plastic surgeon for the work to be done. now I wonder if any body mod artist will be doing bigger surgery like mastectomies or some lipsuction. I went to regular surgeon for my mastectomies last year and Im happy that I did it.
Im impressed by the work done on the guy’s chest.
I been thinking about finding a body mod artist to do my chest revision to remove a fat skin tag and have some fat scalped out on my side. I thought I have to go to regular plastic surgeon for the work to be done. now I wonder if any body mod artist will be doing bigger surgery like mastectomies or some lipsuction. I went to regular surgeon for my mastectomies last year and Im happy that I did it.
For people saying that the practiciners were “negligent”: Interesting, not having a medical license by itself is NOT grounds for a malpractice tort suit in the United States. In other words, the fact that they did not have a license is not de facto evidence of negligence.
For people saying that the practiciners were “negligent”: Interesting, not having a medical license by itself is NOT grounds for a malpractice tort suit in the United States. In other words, the fact that they did not have a license is not de facto evidence of negligence.
damn that looks brutal. but i guess im totally desenitized. not even a cringe
damn that looks brutal. but i guess im totally desenitized. not even a cringe
I’ve put pressure on a friend’s nearly sliced in half leg to stop bleeding, in the middle of the woods on a fishing trip, just to save his life. Highly unsterile? Of course. Did I know better? Of course. Did I have any other options? Absolutely not, other then watch him bleed to death before Air Evac came and got him.
i don’t personally see the keloids themselves as “life threatening” or bastien’s situation really even close to near death if he hadn’t had them removed. it’s a different situation, he definitely had more time to think about it than mere seconds.. and i’m sure he wasn’t BLEEDING TO DEATH emotionally over it. seems like a tough enough guy and he probably could have handled living with them a little longer. i understand why he wasn’t happy and it was his choice etc, but i just don’t see the relation in your analogy there considering he had options.
i hope not everybody runs out to their local bod mod shop to get stuff hacked off them (above post).. and i certainly hope if an artist is doing LIPO that they get a license for their own sake.
anyway, i’m surprised so many people in here have had such SHIT doctors, i’m going to consider myself VERY LUCKY i have a surgeon and family doctor i trust who DO support my choices in body modification and would definitely not laugh me out of their office or send me to the psych ward.
I’ve put pressure on a friend’s nearly sliced in half leg to stop bleeding, in the middle of the woods on a fishing trip, just to save his life. Highly unsterile? Of course. Did I know better? Of course. Did I have any other options? Absolutely not, other then watch him bleed to death before Air Evac came and got him.
i don’t personally see the keloids themselves as “life threatening” or bastien’s situation really even close to near death if he hadn’t had them removed. it’s a different situation, he definitely had more time to think about it than mere seconds.. and i’m sure he wasn’t BLEEDING TO DEATH emotionally over it. seems like a tough enough guy and he probably could have handled living with them a little longer. i understand why he wasn’t happy and it was his choice etc, but i just don’t see the relation in your analogy there considering he had options.
i hope not everybody runs out to their local bod mod shop to get stuff hacked off them (above post).. and i certainly hope if an artist is doing LIPO that they get a license for their own sake.
anyway, i’m surprised so many people in here have had such SHIT doctors, i’m going to consider myself VERY LUCKY i have a surgeon and family doctor i trust who DO support my choices in body modification and would definitely not laugh me out of their office or send me to the psych ward.
I, personally, would like to be able to make my own decisions for what happens to my body. Whether I decide to modify any way I want or have an abortion…that decision should be my own.
Isn’t there a saying, “What is a slut? A person with one more sex partner than you.”
In a roundabout way, it seems to apply here. Think about it.
My body is my own. If (and how) I want to paint it, poke it, cut it, sew it, prick it, stick it, slice it, dice it…it should be my choice.
If you’re not okay with my decisions, then don’t paint, poke, cut, sew, prick, stick, slice or dice yourself in the manner that I choose.
I, personally, would like to be able to make my own decisions for what happens to my body. Whether I decide to modify any way I want or have an abortion…that decision should be my own.
Isn’t there a saying, “What is a slut? A person with one more sex partner than you.”
In a roundabout way, it seems to apply here. Think about it.
My body is my own. If (and how) I want to paint it, poke it, cut it, sew it, prick it, stick it, slice it, dice it…it should be my choice.
If you’re not okay with my decisions, then don’t paint, poke, cut, sew, prick, stick, slice or dice yourself in the manner that I choose.
I didn’t read through that many posts. I’ve seen this input before.
There’s no particularly right way to lead one’s life. To put your mindset between someone else and what they want is wrong.
Some people think a community is about common interests, and in the case of bme I think that’s certainly true. We may have been drawn here because of what we have in common, but we function because of individual commitment to individual interests.
I pulled up a chair, I sat down at the table. We can either have a nice meal or criticize the cooking. Don’t make your world so small you need to shrink other people’s, too.
I didn’t read through that many posts. I’ve seen this input before.
There’s no particularly right way to lead one’s life. To put your mindset between someone else and what they want is wrong.
Some people think a community is about common interests, and in the case of bme I think that’s certainly true. We may have been drawn here because of what we have in common, but we function because of individual commitment to individual interests.
I pulled up a chair, I sat down at the table. We can either have a nice meal or criticize the cooking. Don’t make your world so small you need to shrink other people’s, too.